https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/ Disaster Message Service Discussion Board en-US Sun, 14 Jun 2026 21:28:16 +0000 wpForo 60 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41154 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:10:00 +0000
So what, Europeans have fought, won & lost but at least we have identified differences, learned to accept our lot and used this to our advantage. I'm not very interested in going down this road of accusations, and I'm sure I could make it quite ugly.

Sooo,, Let’s just admit, no one is exactly where they want to be, and dude, you seriously need to change your perspective. Why the hell are you so damn mad???? What happened that burns your soul?? I'm telling you I would like to be your friend, *uck it if you cannot and will not release •••• that you and I were not involved in.

Look, our nails grow the same way. If we drink poison, we die. We have to cut our hair, our socks get stinky if we don't change them and we are offended if someone we really care about doesn't like us.

So why the %uck can't you,.. a grown adult... get over the fact that not everyone in the world likes you as much as you think they should!!

You know what I think... I think you are at a loss to find why the blacks are in the precarious "situation” they’re in, whatever it is, and you take the whole thing way to personal. You refuse to live free of the •••• that you learned growing up.

If I sat across a table from you, with as much money as you needed and looked into your eyes and asked what I could do to change all of the wrongs you see, what would you say?? Would I be remotely interested in any possible solution?

I guess it is a lot easier to see blame instead of working to find why the suffering continues. My friend I really wish I could help.

I do not know what to do, and you can't seem to think about anything but dead ends that help nobody.

To bad for you.........


From my ordinary world,

Dog]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41154 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41153 Tue, 11 Dec 2001 04:54:00 +0000
There are two classic world views. One is that you are saved by works, the other, that you are saved by grace.

The WWII generation was generation that believed in hard work. The Baby Boom generation rejected those ideals and became the "hippies", who believed in another way of living, not hard work. How do you define "hippie"? It was grace, peace love, joy... We had tapped into the most heated and the most difficult argument in religion: Are you saved by works or saved by grace?

People who believe in works are hard workers; they are dependable, etc. People who want to live in a state of grace are considered to be lazy. It is thought those who do not believe in hard work have to change their attitude before they can be given any responsibility.

But many people of my generation covered up their ideals and got responsible jobs. Not me. In a demonstration that lasted two weeks, I convinced Wilson to use a racquet design concept I had developed. It changed the look of tennis and made Wilson millions, but they did not think I was the kind of person who could work for Wilson; so therefore, they didn't believe they had any moral obligation to pay me.

My generation believed the world should to be easier, more graceful. My tennis racquet design concept made tennis easier, more graceful. TENNIS magazine said, "The Hammer makes tennis a joy to play." Now the original Hammer has been taken off the market, though the name, which I suggested, is still being used. The game's organizers are saying these racquets, based on a weighting idea I originally developed, make the game too easy. In other words, it should be work not grace that wins tennis matches.

My generation worked to create a much more graceful, and very wealthy world. But still our ideals are not given respect.

As world events are working themselves out, there are billions of Moslems who have this same attitude that life should be graceful. And they are not fitting comfortably into the world system. They are not being paid enough for the work they do, and they are living bitter lives in the midst an extreme amount of wealth. You can turn to all of them and say, Just work hard and you will make it. But they don't want to be like Americans. They hate our attitudes. If my generation were allowed to run the world, according to our ideals, we could solve the problems by creating jobs that are designed to be easy, with enough pay to live a graceful life. We would figure out a way to do it, and not say, If you work hard you can get a decent amount of pay.]]> 9-11 Attack On America johncauthen https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41153 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41152 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:52:00 +0000
Afterthought;

I'm certain several officers where forced to retire and a couple were transferred to desk jobs. Not that this information should provide you any solace.

While I lived fulltime in N.Y. there was an incident in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan. (Upper Manhattan, exclusive to blacks, bordering Harlem)

In the early 90's W.H. was considered a very bad section, if of course you were white. I recall going into the "community" on a business call, approximately 8:00 a.m. parking my Beamer, and locking the door electronically as I walked across the street.

When I pulled up I noticed 3 black thugs wearing sleeveless shirts with those stupid branding scars on their arms sitting on the stoop opposite where I was walking drinking 40 oz Colt 45's. (No offense if ya got a similar scar, but why would you?)

Anyway as I walked across the street I recall hearing, "Don't he %ucking know?" "Don't that dumb %ucking white boy know?"

Well, I figured it out fast enough and knocked one quick time barely giving anyone a chance to respond and scurried back to my car. Several more insults were afforded my way as I left.

One week later over a period of several days there was a rash of fires set high atop the roofs
of the buildings on that very block.

Each day they were getting worse and the white fireman that had to respond were reporting heavy objects being thrown from above onto their positions on the street. Police became involved.

Eventually they were successful; apparently on "hoodlum" filled a five-gallon bucket with cement, in anticipation of the fireman responding. Wait a top of the building where the fire had started, he threw the bucket 7 stories onto the head of one of the fireman. He was white, a model citizen, father of 2 daughters, husband and now dead. Some may say he was a hero.

There was no marches lead by Al Sharpton, no witness’, no media outrage, and no indictments. In fact they couldn't find one person in the "community" that knew a thing about who started the fires over that week in August, or who killed that innocent man.

We all have a story.

Dog]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/4/#post-41152 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41151 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:29:00 +0000
What the hey! Sam had my number the first time I heard "Darling You Send Me" in my mothers 1969 Rambler station wagon.

Just bought his greatest hits CD, for the fifth time and have been playing it over and over like a mental patient.

In 1996 I went through a divorce and sold my business in New York. I decided to go to California.

I liquidated all of my belongings and got into my XJ6, drove over the GW Bridge and did not look back.

I lived off my money from the sale in Southern California for awhile, but wound up penniless.
I sold my car, did not have a wallet, or ID. I used a bicycle to get around for a time.

I lived in the mountains of Jamul, surrounded by Avocado groves. I was living in a garage sleeping on a couch with Chico, a brindle pit bull owned by Steve, one of the Mexican students that lived in the house.

There were 4 guys that went to San Diego State University in the house. Remus was from Romania, and the owner, the rest were all Mexican Americans.

My father is from Italy and my mother from Ireland. I am fair skinned with black hair and green eyes. I tell you not to impress you, but to impress upon you the difference in my physical appearance from that of my "housemates."

We would go out for a beer from time to time and I noticed that these young men would only go to clubs that catered to Hispanics. I stood out a bit, but I didn't really care.

Eventually I became aware of their perceptions, I was definitely white and they were not. There was some tension, and I did everything I could to
avoid any difficult situations. They seemed to belive that all of thier problems were some how related to thier color.

One time I convinced them to go to a "White Club."
After a short time the remarks were plentiful, "O.K. it's time to blow this Klan meeting!" Yada yada yada, you can imagine the rest. They simply did not enjoy being around white people. Hmmm...

Anyway, Steve wrote an essay for his college English class and told me I would be surprised when I read it. Well he got an "A", and I was surprised, not about the "A", but that the essay was about me.

He wrote how he hated me when he first saw my white skin and green eyes. He thought about every Irish slur and insult, about the drunken Irish, the murdering N.Y. Italians and so on. He thought it was fitting that I slept with his dog.

His essay actually ended quite nicely, he explained how he began to like me, and eventually considered me his friend.

I know what it is like to be hated for having a certain physical appearance. You do not have exclusivity on the experience.

When my ancestors came over from Europe to New York, signs in storefronts advertised for jobs, often included the words; "Irish and Italian need not apply."

Some people spend a lifetime looking for ways to be offended. I certainly could find 20 or 30 ways a day if I looked for the dirt, I simply filter it out and focus on what I can control.

I do not pretend to have walked in your shoes. I am sorry for your bad experinces, but pal, I didn't facilitate them nor was I involved in any of them. I would have sided with you if I ever saw a hate remark, or crime against you. We probably would have been friend's if I knew you.

Just as a wake does not control the route of the ship, neither does our past control our futures. If I may, I suggest you give up your personal history and bury that dirty little bag of bad experiences in the back yard. It will always be there if you need it.

You and I will never change the ignorant people that cannot see past the color of thier own skin.

I'm sure there are perversity's of justice against white's that are equally horrendous as that as was perpetrated against Mr. Diallo.

How will it serve finding the solution, or healing the pain, if I spend all my time and focus on all the wrongs that have been done to me, and whites?

After the Army at least 3 of my buddies participated in the entrance tests for the FBI, and posted excellent scores.

On the follow up interview, which each took separately, they all received almost the same message by the FBI, you are the wrong color (white) at the wrong time.

People must release all blame for thier current conditions and realize theyou have always had many choices. There are no justified resentments.

All 3 buddies are now doing great and realize that in some way it all worked out for the best.

You my friend do not have to look far to find what you hate in others.

I think at least one of has a strong case of myopia; I'm just not sure whom.

Ali, I got to hit it, it is getting late and my Rotty is hungry.

What ever you do, don't die with the music still in you.

Be the man,

Dog]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41151 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41150 Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:18:00 +0000 This is an addendum to my previous post because I've just remembered some issues to add and I'm having one of my sleepless nights again.

I just happened to be up with the wife and as she was scanning the channels(she captured the remote again) she stopped at her favorite, the Wisdom channel.

They were showing a documentary on the life of a fine old southern gentleman from Texas named Richard Dawson(The book is titled "Life Is So Good" by Roger Glaubman). A survivor of the Jim Crow and Legal lynching era who kept his dignity while keeping his mouth shut. Which is why he survived.

Because of this Docu I remembered that all the judgements, sufferings and harsh penalties for being black in America predate blacks being a major part of the crime statistics. This was going on from the start, so to use black peoples present day situation, as it relates to crime, as a reason for the things that are now happenning to them seems like a very incomplete, if not fallacious, argument.

There's so much more to say but let's space it out or we'll drown out the other voices.

ALI aka AA]]> 9-11 Attack On America anotheramerican1 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41150 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41149 Sun, 09 Dec 2001 00:24:00 +0000 Sorry about being late with responses but the whole world seems to go haywire around the solstices. Every time it nears Christmas or summer vacation stuff just starts to happen and I'm caught in a struggle to swim upstream(yeah, I know, you guys are way tired of the excuses).

Anyway since you've sent your last post I tried twice to respond but I couldn't find the words and time ran out on me. Since then I've come to the conclusion that your problem is a strong case of myopia and I will do my best to rectify it even though it seems self inflicted.

The reason I asked you about the Diallo issue is that it represents almost everything that is wrong with America when it comes to justice and equity. The kid was a model citizen who was of the classic mold of immigrants that make the US a great nation. 12-14 hr days of work to support mom and siblings as well as schooling himself. His biggest crimes seem to have been being poor and black in a poor and colored neighborhood. It was 7 pm when he was accosted by a group ununiformed men who weren't so quick to identify a real danger as they were to exterminate a "possible" one. Some of them emptied the clips on their 9mm pistols(your our small arms expert, so you know how unreasonable that is). Some kept shooting well after he stopped moving and the flood of crimson changed the color of the stoop. 27, that was the total hits on a falling target on brick or cement block railed stoop. Those were semi-auto pistols. For the others, this means you gotta pull the trigger every time a shot is fired. This says that for a man to shoot 11 times he had to want to. As to your ascertion that it was a crime ridden neighborhood, all I can say is that it wasn't Kandahar and he wasn't Taliban. Yet a jury found nothing at all wrong with what happenned. No one lost a job and I'm not so certain anyone really got shuffled.

Why's this injustice and inequity. I've got two things to say - Randy Weaver. An armed and extremely dangerous white supremacist, seperatist, non-taxpaying, armed robber and illegal arms dealer who said all the time he would kill any fed agents who tried to capture him. When it all went down, the feds screwed it up pretty bad and I agree, but how can someone with his background win a case of unnecessary force and become enriched when a poor, black, unarmed and never known to be armed, model citizen can be slaughtered with impunity. They rewrote laws and reorganized the FBI because of the weaver case. Could you imagine if Mr. Weaver were a man of the the lawful community or even David Koresh. Oh yeah Koresh and his movement found some justice too.

Damn right, Honest hard working and family oriented black people are upset by by black thuggery and are doing all we can to alleviate it but some of also know that these things are very complex and have root causes that also have to be addressed. Sociological causes like racial injustice. How are young black males supposed to feel when the see what happened to Amadou Diallo. In a word disheartened. He did everything right and the system completely failed him. He couldn't even get justice after the fact. But it doesn't have to be that severe a punishment there's plenty of other stuff to go around.

My college experience was another of those humbling and subtly punishing times that most black people go through. Like the projects I worked on with my white classmate where I, supplied all the ideas, unbeknown to the professor, we shared projects and he always got the A and me the B, no matter what I did. It was odd because I always got the A on the test and he got C's. Or the way the white kids were always getting the exams or the questions because of the connections to the professors' RA's(research assistant).

If we look in the professional ranks we'll see that there's problems here as well. Most of the black people I know have many, many friends who having got degrees from top colleges are mollified and deeply hurt to see a younger person just out of a lesser college and who does nothing superior(and sometimes less), other than hang out with the bosses after work, when invited, go flying past them. Becoming their bosses while knowing so much less that you do all the work.

Or the time in the early nineties, I think it is, when it was found out that the personnel agencies were steering people to positions according to color. This, it seems, is happening less today but I'm certain it hasn't gone away completely or we'd probably be seeing mostly asian immigrants getting the good jobs. These are just a mere handful of the myriad experiences that we, people of color face, everyday and the vast majority still persevere. In fact it usually makes us try harder.

But some are deterred. Allowing these things to turn them negative and antisocial. I'm sure this happens in all communities maybe not to the same degree but, I'm sure, the phenomenon closely approximates this. Where I live, the trailer parks and low income "white" districts are always on TV. Some neighbors of my Father and Mom-inlaw(who live on the other side of county(guess why I'm living near them)), have the biggest rebel flag I've seen on their garage door, some really trashed lawn furniture(with milk crates making tables) in their driveway, their lawn is never cut and full of beer cans and bottles, and they park their monster trucks on the lawn. My inlaws say it sounds like a tractor pull is going on every night over there. They're the worst case, by far, in that neighborhood but there are many who seem to be going in that direction and they're all white. The people of color in the area are far from the bottom and strive for improvement to their properties.

If I always lived there and never went anywhere or never read or didn't understand sociology, my impression of white people would be decidedly more negative. I'd probably spit at every one of them as I saw em. Wouldn't that be a "normal reaction to an obvious situation".

Why are they like this? Because their ancestors were poor and didn't impart any need for them to do better or they didn't do a good enough job or the environment overwhelmed them(terrible schools, everyone around is poor, and in most instances one harworking hard drinking parent). Take your pick. It's pretty common around the world. How many of your homies from your past are at the top of the food chain now? I'll bet it's not all or most. The poor tend to stay poor and the rich tend to get richer or stay rich. I guess because it's usually hard to get poorer.

The question really shouldn't be why black people are not up in arms it should be why aren't Americans up in arms over Americans being in trouble shouldn't it? Why isn't all of the USA concerned over their entire family? Why aren't Americans upset about the school systems in the inner cities and the trailer park districts? Shouldn't all Americans want better for their own. Why is it that we don't strive for parity in funding and tackling the corruption that exist in these systems(I can give you plenty of anecdotes about this)? How come we can spend any amount on prisons and policing but so grudgingly give extra on schools for all of our children even while the country, as a whole, slips into an academic abyss.

I know I feel just as much pain about the white 50 yr old homeless Vietnam vet that I see picking up cans and bottles for a living as I feel about the poor old black man who was a cane farm worker his whole life but is almost crippled by arthritis. I give to both. I feel it when I see the little kids at my inlaws neighbors house, with their Salvation Army clothes and those awful homemade mullets as I feel when I see the grandkids of that cane worker pushing him in his wheelchair to the supermarket to buy one bag of food(maybe dogfood). I might be mistaken but isn't that what America is supposed to be about? W

I can only tell you that as we have done a better job of being fair and just, we have been getting better results as a society, but as our compadre and local sage, JUSTTHeFACTS(I didn't forget you buddy) has said we have long way to go. But I will agree with you big DOG, that there has been some improvement but don't forget that the real empowerment for some came in the sixties. That's what we used to call in track and field(440 yds) a staggered start.

If we can start applying the same principles that seem to be starting to work in our country, the USA, to the world as a whole I feel we will start to get the same results. But it takes time and consistency, like raising kids or coaching(even the science of groping). Look at what is happenning in Ireland for instance.


Whew! Sorry to go on and on but you know it's important so don't bitch about wordiness.

one love,

AA aka ALI

PS How about showing Ilona some of that good side buddy. She's from Europe. She's used to a bit more civility.

PPS This is too strange dude. Sam Cooke's greatist hits CD is wearing out my player. My wife says the only problem is that I, too often, try to sing along. Boy oh boy is it a shame. Once on a SL Luther sang an acapella masterpiece of his "a house is not a home" and you could feel the whole viewing public hugging and holding hands. I was imagining how Sam would have done.]]> 9-11 Attack On America anotheramerican1 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41149 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41148 Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:36:00 +0000
What a stupid post.

L'Menexe
====
...Have a nice vacation, mum.]]> 9-11 Attack On America L'menexe https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41148 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41147 Fri, 07 Dec 2001 05:40:00 +0000
Do you love Sam Cooke's music?

God


Just listening to his greatest hits. what a shame, huh?]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41147 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41146 Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:50:00 +0000
I have no idea what you are talking about. Drive on cosmic pilot.

God]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41146 https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41145 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 18:55:00 +0000
I thought about it. Not very much though. I think what "the community" should focus on is why do white cops react to black males that are breaking the laws, (Rodney on pcp, drunk driving, reckless driving King) & (Mr. Diallo black male in high crime are late at night) the way they do?

Aren't honest black men with good reputations up in arms about all the black thugs that have ruined their reputations? Why do you posture for murdering felons, only because they are black???

Ali, you know there is a problem in "the community" many black men are finding themselves in the system?? Hmmm...maybe that's why white people have certain percetions of black males?

When you are a police officer in N.Y, black or white and 3 out of 4 perps are black, wellll whattaya think??? Normal reaction to obvious situation.

Now let's talk about the evil white man and his corrupt government, that facilitates the helpless by product. (those troubled ones in "the community")

I say poppy cock!!

I use you as an example. I know nothing of your background but I'm sure you are in agreement that certainly a sound familial structure helps our youngsters become productive balanced adults. You are an example of an African American male who is educated, holds down a job, has a family and presumably has no felonies.

At a certain point in your life you took accountability for your own actions and thoughts(???) and stopped doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, EHH, yes/no?

Now if a child is from a broken home, or phrased more appropriately, a home without both parents presenting responsible lifestyles and acting as moral role models, there certainly are many examples of such the child could pursue in society.

Libraries have many pages of many books about wonderfully successful people, the Internet presents references to individual achievement we should all strive for, and last but not least, our community almost always has one or two individuals who "got out" and made something of themselves.

There are many opportunities for our youth today, and no excuses for underachievement. I agree that not all white people are good, and not all black people are bad.

We have fundamental differences about how we live, what we eat, the music we listen too...so forth and so on. Humans gravitate to what is familiar, within a comfort zone. I'm not sure we will ever be as comfortable with other races, nationalities or even genders as we are with those we have most in common with.

Some things my wife finds interesting and important I couldn't give two &hits about, & vice versa.

I think most whites feel that they shouldn't have to hold the hands of those that should have been running with the ball along time ago. I did not come from a family of privilige, and my father was an abusive mean man. (I forgive him and love him today.)

Anything I have I had to exchange long blocks of my life for against odds stacked against me. At times it was very, very difficult and lonely.

Sorry, you are rubbing off on me, I'll try to tighten this up now.

I am not qualified to debate at length the many challenges the races in America have, or the philosophies by which I try to live my life. I am barely living effectively by them, and try every day to make the right decisions.

I know I am sometimes a rude unrefined standoffish ass, but that is just one side of my identity that at certain times I choose to reveal.

After you have had the chance to peruse through this, feel free to blow holes through it at will, I would expect nothing less.

DOG]]> 9-11 Attack On America god https://www.viexpo.com/9-11-attack-on-america/archive-through-december-12-2001/paged/3/#post-41145