TO SERGEY.

Sergey of course you can talk to me just tell me what you would like to know.And i will try to answer as objectively as i can.

Emina

Five young boys were killed yesterday by a NATO cluster bomb in the village of Doganovic in Kosovo. These boys were named Edon(3 years old), Fisnik (9), Osman (13), Burim (14) and Vajdet (15).

Someone, somewhere will have to pay.

Milosevic should pay, he started this crap!!

Serbian people take a few moments of pause, put emotion to one side and consider what follows.


You are a cultured and educated country and respected member of Europe. So why is it that the Nato members have taken military action against you? Countries like Britain and France do not go to war without good reason, already this century they have fought two terrible world wars for just reasons with great loss to themselves. Do you think they would embark on a third without similar good reasons? Think about Germany for a moment. This is the first time the German Military have gone into action since WWII. Why? Also think about the shame the German people have lived with for the last fifty years, a shame which will never be forgotten or forgiven. The shame of their compliance with the Holocaust, a second Holocaust is now happening in Europe. A Holocaust that the Serbian people is responsible for. There's no Nazi party in Yugoslavia, but there is a Hitler - Slobodan Milosevic - which only a few weeks ago many Serbians were calling "Slobo-saddam".

Do you really want the shame of Europe's second Holocaust on your heads?
Caused by a leader you didn't really want or respect?

Yes as far as Kosovo was concerned you believed the Albanians needed "a kick up the arse" but is Genocide really what you meant? The Serbian Ministry of Information is telling you that nothing like that is happening, it's all Western propaganda. And yes you believe this because you want to believe it. You are a cultured and educated country, you couldn't be party to such things - could you? But your Ministry of Information is manipulating you like Goebbels Propaganda Ministry manipulated the German people fifty years ago. Tens of thousands of Albanians are fleeing Kosovo. Most of them are women, children and the elderly. Where are all the men? They all tell consistent stories of brutality perpetrated by the Serbian Police. You are being told no such thing is happening, that they are fleeing the Nato bombs. Do you really believe this? If it's true why were all journalists expelled from Kosovo?

Surely if genocide isn't happening Milosevic's priority would be to prove
to the world the lies of the Western media?
Wouldn't he??

Is Milosevic's rhetoric truthful? You are being told about the continued downing of Nato aircraft and the capture of their pilots but where's the wreckage and where are the pilots? Nato has never lied about its losses in previous battles. It acknowledges the loss of one it's most expensive, technology advanced, planes the Stealth bomber. Nato hasn't begun this military action in the belief that its superior technology can destroy Serbia's military in a matter of days without loss to itself. They are well aware of the fighting abilities of the Serbian Military, which have proved their capabilities many times. Nato expects losses of both weaponry and men and is prepared for that.

If what you're military is doing in Kosovo in your name is right and correct, why isn't any other nation supporting you? Yes there is much anger at Nato's military action, which is totally understandable, violence is a terrible thing. But who actually supports what you are doing in Kosovo? Russia has been your ally for many years and condemns Nato force but do they support you? Do they send military to help you? No of course not and will not - they will not be party to Genocide.

For most of the people of Kosovo it's too late, the damage has already been done and the clock can't be turned back.


Only the Serbian people can stop Europe's second Holocaust or they can fight to the bitter end and take collective responsibility for it. No longer will Serbia be considered a cultured, educated nation, it'll only be remembered for murder, torture, rape and genocide, unless the people of Serbia do something now to stop it!

But I suppose this is more western propaganda? Isn't it??

I stole the above message by "TRUTH" from another web board. I hope it does not have the same nickname as someone on this board. If it does this message is a disclaimer for you and an apology.

People writing stuff labelling it "Truth" have always made me suspicious, here is why:

"You are a cultured and educated country and respected member of Europe."

The last bit is false. Due to the demonisation campaign led by Western media and started by the UK media, nobody respects Serbs since the beginning of the 90's. I suppose respect was shown via imposing economical sanctions ?

"So why is it that the Nato members have taken military action against you? Countries like Britain and France do not go to war without good reason"

They did not go to war, they waged it forgotting to declare it because it was illegal, nuance. Some NATO nations sent a few troops and planes, but the bulk is from the US.

"already this century they have fought two terrible world wars for just reasons with great loss to themselves. Do you think they would
embark on a third without similar good reasons?"

I fail to see the point. France surrendered and cooperated with the Nazis through the Vichy regime, Britain fought when the Luftwaffe started bombarding their island. How is that similar to teaming up with Bill Clinton's administration just because he has a personal problem with Milosevic ?

"Why? Also think about the shame the German people have lived with for the last fifty years, a shame which will never be forgotten or forgiven. The shame of their compliance with the Holocaust, a
second Holocaust is now happening in Europe."

The holocaust is in the author's head. I will say it again, had Milosevic been interested in emulating the Nazis, he would certainly not have waited for NATO bombs and their drug-fuelled funds to their KLA friends. Did Milosevic kill 6 million Jews, more millions of Russians and several hundred thousands Serbs ? No, I don't think so.

"A Holocaust that the Serbian people is responsible for. There's no Nazi party in Yugoslavia, but there is a Hitler - Slobodan Milosevic - which only a few weeks ago many Serbians were calling "Slobo-saddam".

He is now blaming Serbian people, which confirms the effects of the satanisation process enginered about 10 years ago. Do Kosovars also indulge in killing ? What does the author know about Milosevic but the evening news ? Slobo-Saddam is an invention of the UK Government (Whitehall) around 30th March 1999 after alleged exchange of tactics between Hussein and Milosevic. Talk about assumptions.

"Do you really want the shame of Europe's second Holocaust on your heads? Caused by a leader you didn't really want or respect? "

A lot of people do not like Milosevic, but as far as respect, 99% of Serbia are pretty impressed with his guts at the moment !

"You are a cultured and educated country, you
couldn't be party to such things - could you?"

No. Nor could we pretend to go in for help and bomb those we pledged to help, drive them out of their homes and deny them airdropped supplies (Wesley Clark).

"But your Ministry of Information is manipulating you like Goebbels Propaganda Ministry manipulated the German people fifty years ago."

Indeed there is something quite disturbing about Yugoslav propaganda, given the vengeance with which NATO is targetting it, killing innocent journalists.

"Tens of thousands of Albanians are fleeing Kosovo."

NATO bombs + KLA enrolling Kosovars + KLA ambushing Serb police + Serbs shelling KLA.

"Most of them are women, children and the elderly. Where are all the men? They all tell consistent stories of brutality perpetrated by the
Serbian Police."

No, only the few NATO media interview say such things, although we hear what they want us to hear. But they need no worry: the US promised to take " a few thousands" to safety...

"why were all journalists expelled from Kosovo? "

It must be Brent Sadler's ghost I saw in Pristina showing craters created by cruise missiles.

"Surely if genocide isn't happening Milosevic's priority would be to prove to the world the lies of the Western media? Wouldn't he?? "

What I would like to know is what your Western media have proven so far. A bogus video, Madeleine Albright's friend presiding the joke of the War crimes court and two satellite pictures of KLA burial grounds, that's all you got ?

You are being told about the continued downing of Nato aircraft and the capture of their pilots but where's the wreckage and where are the pilots?"

Yes, over 60 planes and helicopters have been shot down so far and casualties are probably over one hundred. The pieces are difficult to collect from the montainous regions, and it is true that some of the NATO cowards did make it back to Bosnia where media such as the French paper "Le Parisien" spotted them. What will they tell the families ?

"Nato has never lied about its losses in previous battles."

The author will repeat that statement under oath if necessary.

"It acknowledges the loss of one it's most expensive, technology advanced, planes the Stealth bomber."

So advanced it was almost invisible. They had to acknowledge, the serial number and the pilot's name were on national Serbian TV. Has the author seen the pilot recently ?

"Nato hasn't begun this military action in the belief that its superior technology can destroy Serbia's military in a matter of days without loss
to itself."

That's exactly what they said ! Oops.

"They are well aware of the fighting abilities of the Serbian Military, which have proved their capabilities many times."

When did they prove it ? In the Gulf War ? In another life ?

"Nato expects losses of both weaponry and men and is prepared for that."

Yup, they are replacing their precious nuclear warheads with conventional ones. As far as ground troops, they expect to lose them so much that they keep dodging the subject. I wouldn't go on the ground if I were them. They're gonna have the surprise of a lifetime.

"If what you're military is doing in Kosovo in your name is right and correct, why isn't any other nation supporting you?"

Because the surrounding nations are brainwashed by NATO, as well as North Yugoslavia which saw millions of fliers dropped from a plane last week telling them that they will "starve to death" and that they were "deprived from the wealth of the West". Soon, the Serbian TV will be out and there goes the truth.

"Yes there is much anger at Nato's military action, which is totally understandable, violence is a terrible thing."

Cf demonstrations worldwide, given the babies NATO killed, the use of radioactive weaponry, the relentless crippling of utility targets.

"Russia has been your ally for many years and condemns Nato force but do they support you? Do they send military to help you? No of course not and will not"

Bluffing with war on the table is risky, the US will soon find out. Russia will never accept NATO's latest blackmail about oil embargo.

"For most of the people of Kosovo it's too late, the damage has already been done and the clock can't be turned back."

Right, if they go back you will bomb them and if they stay your help will make sure they starve or die of diseases for lack of proper sanitation.

"No longer will Serbia be considered a cultured, educated nation, it'll only be remembered for murder, torture, rape and genocide, unless the people of Serbia do something now to stop it!"

This is rich, coming from someone who support killing of civilians, to finally insult a noble race. Serbia's numerous attempts to receive observers and get back to the negotiations table have failed, for NATO (more specifically the US) will do anything to land their troops without losing credibility.

The US want their base in Kosovo, and if they can conquer the rest of Yugoslavia in the process that's even better. Dream on.

"But I suppose this is more western propaganda? Isn't it?? "

Yes it is.

Basil,

Good start.
I'm glad we agree on the proposed first PRINCIPLE.

PRINCIPLE # 1 :
"Genocide, Deportation and Rape by any party
are violations of basic Human Rights and Dignity
that CANNOT be justified by historical events,
political or economic objectives and/or strategies."

We can thus consider this basic principle upheld by all,
save for three abstentions so far.


We can now move forward to the SECOND BASIC PRINCIPLE,
being the principle proposed by Basil :

PRINCIPLE # 2:
"No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter".

Basil, you have my vote on this. Absolutely.

I hope the others will sign on as well.

Nick, how much time did YOU spend in Kosovo?
You say NATO is creating these stories.
With what authority do you say that?
What are your sources?

About the children killed in Doganovic.
It is a very sorry thing - I will never try to justify it.
But I tell you this....
hundreds - maybe thousands - of children have been killed by Serb Police and Army
WAY BEFORE NATO GOT INVOLVED.

If you don't believe it,
I'll give you (or anybody who asks)
the Web pages with the color photo's taken by UNHCR, Red Cross, etc., while they were still
allowed presence in Kosovo.

These children died in total anonimity.
YOUR SERBS WILL PAY FOR THIS.

Bill Clitty has allegedly upped his financial request to the US Congress to $6.9 billion from $6 billion. Indeed He had not foreseen that one of his Apaches would hit a tree, catch fire and crash near Tirana.

If they can't even steer these things properly on safe grounds, Serbs will be making puzzles out of them in Kosovo...

I find this strange, the pilot had extensive training on Sega Megadrive Balkan Strike 99.

That is o.k. Nick. Tomorrow Milosevic will claim that the helicopter was shot down by Serbians, or Serb sympathizers, or maybe they had a bomb on board and Milo personally hit the destruct button! By the way, where did you hear about the crash? CNN? You can't trust western media sources you know. If the USA accidently lost a helicopter they would lie and say Serbians shot it down with a new particle beam weapon they had bought from the Alpha Centauri aliens they have an alliance with. So Milo probably did blow it up with a rock he threw at it! Yeah, that's it! You can't trust CNN or NATO dude, they would never admit Milo did it. So maybe he did!

................LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
......................LOL LOL LOL
.........................LOL LOL
.........................LOL LOL
.........................LOL LOL
......................LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
...................LOL LOL LOL LOL
.......................LOL LOL LOL
.........................LOL LOL
............................LOL
.............................L
.............................O
.............................L


......................YUGOSLAVIA..................

.....BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM................

To all.
I haven't been around for a couple of days and I realize that things here change. At last...
As for me, I would really like to join the discussion of principles, proposed by Jack and Basil.
My position on GENOCIDE was posted in Russian Response.
I can't help subcscribing to both PRINCIPLES mentioned ( though in our situation these two do not go together very well). Here's another one. I would appreciate if it is considered:
PRINCIPLE #3 In case military operation is inevitable, only objects of MILITARY SIGNIFICANCE should be exposed to bombing, not civil ones.

To Jack London

I can't believe you're capable of reaching compromises! Fine, then. It's high time they were reached. It's my willingness to exchange ideas and find some common grounds that seems to have gained me a reputation of a Jew or a traitor among some of my compatriots who post here. Though you, Jack, can hardly "accuse" me of being a coward or the sort. I continue to state the importance of sense and responsibility in all the issues which might lead to a global war. It was the only reason which made me suggest that you and Maja be excluded (that is, not addressed). I'm against EXTREMISM in both words and actions.

So, we've voted in favour of the two basic principles. Great! Now it's high time to bring the above-mentioned buts about and to analyze the Balkan situation via their meaning.
So, according to
PRINCIPLE # 1 :
"Genocide, Deportation and Rape by any party
are violations of basic Human Rights and Dignity
that CANNOT be justified by historical events,
political or economic objectives and/or strategies.",

Milo is likely to be defined as a criminal guilty in human right violations and ethnic cleansing of the entrusted by the people of Yugoslavia territory. If the crime is found out and he's caught red-handed by the world community, it has to be stopped and all the guilty should face the international court. JUSTICE! But we've got something different. A NATO, being a military alliance, created in order to ensure DEFENCE of its members and officially declared this, launches a series of aggressive airstrikes on the territory of the independent Yugoslavia, which isn't even its member. The will and position of a number of states constituting the UN is being ignored. Thus, NATO have violated our second principle which reads:
PRINCIPLE # 2:
"No military alliance is allowed to impersonate the will of the United Nations unless officially empowered by the latter". As a result, all over the world there has arisen an tense atmosphere of mutual misunderstanding and even threat likely to transform into a global war. (I'm not kidding, WAR PREPARATION is in full progress in Russia). Hence - we've got a whole group of criminals, including Bill Clinton, Madelain Albright, Athony Blair and so on.
The abovementioned people violated the principles we agreed upon. Only this gives me the right to apply the word "criminal" to them. Expecting your comments, Jack...
P.S. Guido, this isn't a PM imbecile children drawing competition.

To BASIL,JACK And all others.

I sign this after very hard thinking about Basil's agreement.

Emina.

PS Basil still did not answer my question though.
Why did you throw the dirt in my face about being a refugee or not?