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(@pkurdo)
Active Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 8
November 30, 1999 5:55 am  

Roger,

Go back to your medications immediately! Otherwise, those nasty people in the white suits that want to hurt you will be back.


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(@L'menexe)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 616
November 30, 1999 9:20 am  

oh no, it's mathesson!!

have fun TG, daniela...
he and i have tangled elsewhere...


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(@daniela)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 333
November 30, 1999 4:57 pm  

Mathesson, write to your congressman, but check
the spelling first.

L'm , don't worry for the outcome with the new mental asylum candidate; you haven't met
Pedro Kurdo yet...


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(@daniela)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 333
November 30, 1999 7:58 pm  

Quotes from NATO's aggression on Yugoslavia, Nov 29

Hawk Collection

"As soon as sufficient forces are available and the weather allows, the ground installations of the
Yugoslav Air Force and the City of Belgrade will be destroyed from the air by continual day and
night bombardment. When that is completed we will subdue Yugoslavia."

--Adolf Hitler

"We are starting with the integrated air defence system, the anti-aircraft sites, command and
control facilities and infrastructure and will be then progressively and systematically moving from
there."

--Wesley Clark

"At the beginning of the operation, we focused, properly, on Serbia's highly developed air
defenses, to reduce the risks to our pilots... We have degraded the system to the point that now
NATO can fly 24 hours a day, not simply at night... We've destroyed all of Serbia's refineries and
half of its capacity to produce ammunition. We've attacked its bridges and rail lines and
communications networks to diminish its ability to supply, reinforce, and control its forces in
Kosovo. Increasingly now, we are striking the forces themselves, hitting tanks, artillery, armored
personnel carriers, radar missiles, and aircraft. "

--Bill Clinton

What democracy is all about

"The pilot dropped the bomb in good faith, as you would expect of a trained pilot from a
democratic NATO country to do". Jamie Shea, about the NATO bombing against a Kosovar
refugees' convoy, April 15.

Legitimate military targets

"I think no power to your refrigerator, no gas to your stove, you can't get to work because the
bridge is down - the bridge on which you held your rock concerts -- and you all stood with targets
on your heads. That needs to disappear at 3 o'clock in the morning.". USAF Gen. Michael Short,
quoted by the Observer in "Belgrade open for business as usual" (May, 16)

Sieg Heil, Herr Naumann!

"We will see how they will feel after a few more weeks and months or what have you of
continuously pounding them into pieces." Klaus Naumann, NATO's senior military officer

"We are not romantic people! We are the Sega generation" NATO pilot replying to CNN reporter's
question whether he had any qualms about killing innocent civilians.

...and Justice for all

"You're more likely to see the UN building dismantled brick-by-brick and thrown into the Atlantic
than to see NATO pilots go before a UN tribunal" Rep. Lester Munson of the International
Relations Committee, quoted by the National Post in article "We'll never hand pilots to Arbour:
U.S. official", May 22.

Liberal slogan of the 90's

"Give War a Chance" Thomas Friedman, leading NY Times columnist

"It should be lights out in Belgrade: Every power grid, water pipe, bridge, road and war-related
factory has to be targeted.'" Thomas Friedman

Gimme some more

"You want 1950? We can do 1950. You want 1389? We can do 1389 too." Thomas Friedman

Blame the victim

"It is America that is owed an apology. After an accident of war, we have been falsely accused of
killing Chinese with malice aforethought." William Safire, NY Times columnist on Chinese
Embassy bombing and Clinton apologies

Any questions?

"This is a fight between good and evil, and NATO is not going to allow evil to prevail." William
Cohen, U.S. Secretary of Defense

"The war against the Serbs is 'no longer just a military conflict. It is a battle between Good and
Evil; between civilisation and barbarity'" Tony Blair, UK Prime Minister

Moral imperative

'We're not inflicting pain on these f**kers. When people kill us, they should be killed in greater
numbers.' Clinton ordering the bombing of civilian targets in Somalia, as quoted in All Too
Human, George Stephanopoulos

Jamie Shea - diplomat and musicist

"Diplomacy without arms is like music without instruments." Jamie Shea, NATO press
conference, June 2, 1999

Just doing my job

"I wouldn't call it violence and death. It's a technical job. I have to "play" with "things" to neutralize
"things", to destroy buildings or neutralize a jet. It doesn't look like violence - I don't kill people -
that's probably how every one of my friends looks at it. We're not here to kill people. We're there to
stop "things" from doing harm to people... We started accomplishing "things" since the day we
arrived here in the 'theatre' " Canadian pilot on CBC News

Negotiating in good faith

"We intentionally set the bar too high for the Serbs to comply. They need some bombing, and
that's what they are going to get." Senior State Department official, in Rambouillet, quoted by Jim
Jatras, Cato Institute


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 adam
(@adam)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 14
November 30, 1999 8:27 pm  

I see that 'Daniela' the serbian propaganda collective, based in Belgrade, are busy once more.

How much do you serb zealots get paid? Or do you do this for free?


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(@nalini)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 8
November 30, 1999 8:48 pm  

Tommygunns/suitboy

Who on earth is that person your talking about?
And im living on a farm?? I WISH!!! Outside air no traffic.
I would sure love that. And for your language analyses all very funny. Ever thought of non natives. No you haven't i guess......Don't worry by the way your laughing behind your computer. im laughing to over your analyses, behind my friends computer.

Good luck with it:-))))))))))


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(@suitboy)
Trusted Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 81
December 2, 1999 11:15 pm  

Nalini,

Yes, I know a bit about languages. I know that there are patterns of usage that correspond to particular languages or ethnic groups. In other words, people who speak the same native language and are learning English as a second language tend to use identical words, phrases, and expressions. They also make the same mistakes. People who study grammar early on often have a difficult time actually speaking the language because they rely on mental translations rather than speaking naturally and spontaneously.

And yes, I've lived among the 'non-natives' as you say. In fact, I've lived in several foreign countries and have taught ESL.

I hope I've had something to do with your laughter. It certainly pleases me to think so. Keep on laughing. It's the best medicine.

suitboy


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 adam
(@adam)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 14
December 3, 1999 12:34 am  

I hope I've had something to do with your laughter. It certainly pleases me to think so. Keep on laughing. It's the best medicine.

suitboy

I don't wish to correct you, but:
"laughter is the best medicine".

I wish you every success in your effort to learn and grasp the finer nuances of the English language.


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(@L'menexe)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 616
December 3, 1999 8:50 am  

oh brother....
seemed like an appropriate paraphrase/derivation to me, so what EXACTLY is your point, or your problem?

haughty condescension is bloody CHEAP in these parts.


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(@suitboy)
Trusted Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 81
December 3, 1999 6:09 pm  

Adam,

Duh! and so?

You must really be desperate to stir up controversy. Apparently, any topic will do.

Do you have anything intelligent to say regarding the subject of this board? Or do you prefer playing the Blairite, yipping madly on the sidelines?

Suitboy


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 adam
(@adam)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 14
December 5, 1999 2:48 am  

God bless Tony Blair
I and many others are very appreciative of the thrashing we administered to the serbian savages


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 serb
(@serb)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 23
December 5, 1999 9:38 am  

I will find you Adam!!!


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(@daniela)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 333
December 5, 1999 10:52 am  

A VIEW FROM HERE
by deb weiss


Rethinking Hillary's War
November 29, 1999


Kosovo is the cotton candy war. If you try to take a bite, it simply melts away.

We've long known that allegations of Serbian genocide against Kosovar Albanians were mostly 'spin'.

Now, we're digesting the Pentagon's belated confession that the Serbs really did down that F-117
Nighthawk stealth fighter back in March -- a claim dismissed at the time as 'propaganda.'

The facts have emerged at all only because some reporters at the El Paso Times
invoked the Freedom of Information Act to squeeze the truth out of the Air Force.
(Most of their journalistic colleagues are still waiting for a White House fax.)

Throughout the 78-day war, Defense Secretary Bill Cohen and his merry men assured us repeatedly that
the conflict in Kosovo was of an order of magnitude not seen since 1939. Mass murder. Slaughter of
the innocents. 100,000 dead.

The best estimate now is that between two and ten thousand Albanians died, many of them armed rebels
killed in skirmishes with Serb soldiers. (Several thousand Serb civilians would die, too, during
two-and-a-half months of Nato bombing.)

Savage, yes. But not exactly genocide.

For weeks, reporters flooded the nightly news with official information, prefab images of fleeing
refugees, tragic anecdotes, and -- when public opinion began to wobble dangerously -- that amazing
'satellite footage' of mass graves.

Frenzied news accounts transformed Slobodan Milosevic from a grubby little gangster into the new
incarnation of Hitler. Under Bill Clinton's leadership, we were going to take him out, and save the
world.

We missed.

Milosevic is alive and well. The bloodshed continues: except that now it's our Albanian friends who
brutalize Serbs and gypsies, while Nato peacekeepers write endless memoranda of self-justification.

The Nato bombing laid waste to Serbia's civilian infrastructure and spawned an extraordinary
environmental disaster as chemical plants were demolished, their poisons released into earth, air and
water. The effects will be felt for years -- perhaps decades -- to come. (Note well: Al Gore, the man
who would be green, heartily endorsed this war.)

Now, in the oddest twist of all, Clintonista journalist Gail Sheehy (who's penned a glowing new
Hillary bio, "Hillary's Choice") claims it was Mrs. Clinton, and not her horndog hubby, who ordered
the Kosovo bombing in the first place.

Incredibly, Sheey asserts that Hillary ended an 8-month pout (she'd been giving Bill the silent
treatment because of Monica) by phoning the big guy and instructing him to start the bombing. The
very next morning, Sheey says, he passed the recommendation on to Nato.

In short, the celebrated "Clinton Doctrine" seems to have been a kind of geopolitical marital aid, as
the ultimate Power Couple sought to put some sizzle back in their lives.

The Clintons are often, tritely, compared to Fitzgerald's Tom and Daisy Buchanan, the posh villains
of "The Great Gatsby." It's a stretch. The Buchanans may have been ruthless, but compared to the
Clintons, they had a kind of class.

At least, they had the grace to go away at novel's end.

Can we expect reporters to hype Hillary's role in the bombing of Serbia as energetically as they did,
say, George W's rumored drug use, or Pat Buchanan's alleged 'defense' of Hitler?

No. We can't. They won't.

If possible, they'll ignore the allegation. If pressed, they'll justify her conduct, probably, in the
feverish language of James Carville (now 'officially' on board for Hillary's Senate bid), as they did
when she embraced and kissed Suha Arafat, following Suha's now-infamous anti-Israeli rant.

"What should Hillary have done?" reporters then sneered in unison, in a classic Carvillean
formulation. "Knifed Suha in the back? Stomped out of the room? Destroyed the peace process?"

As if these were the only alternatives to a kiss.

As if simply NOT kissing Suha would have required a diplomatic instinct so abstract and subtle that
even the brilliant Mrs. Clinton could hardly be expected to have possessed it.

The moral of the story: there'll be no press frenzy concerning Sheehy's stunning allegation.

The Serbs were guilty of genocide, right? Or something. Okay: hate-crimes, then. Just as bad. 2000:
100,000 so who's counting? Besides, no-one even cares any more. Leave Hillary alone. You
Clinton-bashers never quit.

If Sheey's account turns out to be true, of course, this will represent a great leap forward for
womankind.

Think about it. With the bombing of Kosovo, the wife of the man who bombed a Sudanese pharmaceutical
factory to distract the public from his impeachment woes, will have demonstrated that she really is
his equal. And then some.

Her body-count is bigger than his body-count.


You go, girl.


http://www.drudgereport.com/Weiss/112999.htm


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(@tommygunns)
Estimable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 117
December 7, 1999 4:17 am  

Zoja,

I have a request. I read in the archives your posting of "The Seselj Story" parts 3 and 4. I've searched the archives for parts 1 & 2 but can't find them.

If you still have parts 1 & 2, or if you have the complete article, could you either re-post it or email it directly to me.

Thanks in advance.

tommygunns


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(@tgunns)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4
December 7, 1999 4:56 am  

Phil,

Here's a couple of interesting articles that may be an early source in the formation of a structure of language and concepts the result of which was the fodder for the demonization of the Serbs.

The irony is that they come from one of those obscure 'class struggler' web sites you enjoy sneering at.

Check it out. You may have more in common with the the dark side of the class struggle than you think. :O)

The essays were written by Branka Magas and published by 'Solidarity'in their journal Against The Current. I know zip about Branka Magas and little about Solidarity other than having seen the ACT a few times and not finding it particularly interesting. The essays are:

1. The Politics of Ethnic Cleansing: Mythology and Genocide [Jan-Feb, 1994]

2. Milosevic's Serbia and Ethnic Cleansing: The Making of a Fascist State [Sept-Oct, 1994]

You can find them at the following URL:

http://www.igc.apc.org/solidarity/indexATC.html

t'gunns

PS - I've always adhered to Ho Chi Minh's dictum "to know your enemy better than he knows himself". It's always helpful to research the historical roots of an opponents ideas, even the worst and sloppiest of early expressions of those ideas can produce insight into current thinking. It always amazes me when people take up positions on a controversial subject with no understanding whatsoever of their own beliefs and where they may have originated. At times I'm certain the bulk of humanity lives in a state of self-delusion, mesmerized by the sound of their own voices.


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