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(@spirodreamer)
Trusted Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 75
 

The Guardian


Nuclear war, courtesy of Nato

Kosovo, like Vietnam, has liberal support. But what of our weapons?

By John Pilger
Tuesday May 4, 1999


The 'just and noble liberal war', in which Nato bombs have now
incinerated people on a bus, having already killed passengers on a
train, refugees on tractors, the elderly in a hostel, workers in
factories and children in their homes, is not the first. Vietnam was a
liberals' war, described as a 'righteous crusade' by Bill Clinton's
hero, John Kennedy, and a 'noble cause' by Ronald Reagan, a
conservative. The labels are important only as illusion, now that
Clinton is Reagan and Blair is Thatcher.

Nato's 'new vision' is to seek justification for American-led attacks
all over the world. When communism retired from the cold war
game, the 'war on drugs' was used to justify renewed American military
intervention in Latin America. After that, the pursuit of
demons took over. Demons are dictators of no further use to Washington.
There was General Noriega in Panama, where the US
invasion cost 2,000 lives, and Saddam Hussein in Iraq (200,000 lives)
and various warlords in Somalia (7,000 lives). Now it is the turn
of Milosevic, with whom Clinton and Blair share responsibility for
emptying most of Kosovo.

Demons as a justification for attacking countries have since been
reinforced by Weapons of Mass Destruction, or WMD. These are
chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, the possession of which, says
Nato literature, 'may require pre-emptive retaliation'. The
ferocity of the continuing military and economic assault on Iraq is
justified in this way - when the real reason has to do with the
policing of an expanded American protectorate from the Gulf to the
Caspian Sea.

The hypocrisy is on a grand scale. Only one nation on earth has used all
three WMDs: the United States. Smallpox was used to
ethnically cleanse Native Americans and to spread plague in Cuba.
Chemicals were used in Vietnam: between 1961 and 1971,
American planes dropped on South Vietnam a defoliant, Agent Orange,
which contained dioxin, a poison that causes foetal death,
congenital defects and cancer (this was code-named Operation Hades).

When a Congressional inquiry revealed that the equivalent of six pounds
of dioxin had been dumped on every man, woman and child
in South Vietnam, Operation Hades was changed to the friendlier
Operation Ranch Hand, and the spraying continued. A pattern of
deformities began to emerge: babies born without eyes, with deformed
hearts and small brains and stumps instead of legs. I
glimpsed these children in contaminated villages in the Mekong Delta;
and whenever I asked about them, people pointed to the sky;
one man scratched in the dust a good likeness of a bulbous C-130
aircraft, spraying. In the towns and cities, it was not unusual to
see deformed children begging. They were known as 'Agent Orange babies'.

Recently, at the Tu Do hospital in Saigon, I was shown a group of
newborn babies, all of whom had Agent Orange deformities. The
war that officially ended in 1975 goes on; contaminated soil and water
are poisoning a third generation. Unlike American and
Australian veterans of the war, who have been finally compensated by the
manufacturers of dioxin, the Vietnamese have received
nothing. Now a five-year Canadian study has discovered that dioxin runs
right through Vietnam's food chain and has called for
international help in decontaminating agricultural land, forests and
waterways. The cost of one F-16 bomber would pay for this.

'Can you imagine pilots from a democratic country doing such a thing
deliberately?' said Jamie, the Nato spin doctor, following the
craven killing of refugees by an F-16 pilot. Today, the same pilots are
spreading over Serbia and Kosovo a poison potentially as
cataclysmic as Agent Orange. It is carried in depleted uranium, which
makes missiles and shells more destructive. This is how
Rosalie Bertell, a Canadian specialist, describes the effects on humans:
'Depleted uranium comes from radioactive waste produced
for nuclear weapons and the nuclear industry. It can pierce tanks and
release a deadly radioactive aerosol of uranium, unlike
anything seen before. This lies in the dust or is suspended in the air,
or carried in the wind. It penetrates the lung tissue and enters
the blood stream, storing in the liver, kidney and bone and irradiating
all the delicate tissues. It can initiate cancer or promote
cancer.'

The truth is that the US and Britain are engaged in a form of nuclear
warfare in the Balkans. In 1996, the United Nations Human
Rights Tribunal called depleted uranium a WMD. Like the Agent Orange
babies of Vietnam, the deformed and cancer-stricken
children of southern Iraq, where depleted uranium was tested by British
and American forces during the 1991 Gulf war, bear witness
to the true nature of righteous Western crusades. Civilised people
should speak out urgently before the latest noble cause claims
more expendable victims and beckons a world war. No amount of specious
moralising will conceal the scale of the crime.

For fair non-commercial use only.


   
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(@daniela)
Reputable Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 333
 

THE AGE
MAY 20, 1999

KOSOVARS [sic!] LOOK FOR BEST DEAL

By JANINE MacDONALD

CANBERRA

Australia is slipping on the list of preferred countries for Kosovar
refugees who are ``destination shopping'' and have heard reports
that other countries are offering better conditions and assistance,
it has been claimed.

According to a source connected with Operation Safe Haven,
refugees are looking for the most favorable
destination, knowing
they may spend up to a year there.

In Australia, which is allegedly struggling to attract its quota of
4000 refugees, newly arrived Kosovars are becoming disappointed after swapping information with relatives in other
asylum countries, including Canada, Germany and the United
States.

The Australian Albanian community wants the Federal Government to increase its weekly payment of $20 to the
refugees and to improve conditions at the two army camps used
so far - Vic-toria's Puckapunyal and Tasmania's Brighton
Barracks.

The Government yesterday denied the existence of ``destination
shopping'' and said Australia's offer was generous, but admitted
the weekly payment was under review.

A spokesman for the Immigration Minister, Mr Philip Ruddock,
said that ``by any objective measure Australia's contribution is
certainly generous''.

Germany's weekly payment is 80 marks, or about $67. But
officials say other factors influencing the refugees' decisions
include the doubling of Germany's intake from 10,000 to 20,000
after a temporary halt. Many Kosovar Albanians speak German
and have relatives in Europe.

Albanian leaders in Australia have presented the Department of
Immigration and Multicultural Affairs with a list of demands,
outlining concerns about privacy and facilities for different
religions - mainly Muslim and Catholic - and calling for
long-term employment and/or education plans as well as access
to welfare payments and Medicare.

They want inside toilets to be built, padlocks for doors, small
fridges to keep milk in their units, and more money.

The chairman of the Australian-Albanian national council, Mr
Erik Lloga, said the Government had to take a
long-term view of
what it could provide and start planning. He said English
language training will occupy the first two to three months.

``Australia is the only country that does not grant them full rights
as refugees,'' he said. ``They need a place to call home.''


   
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(@guidomasterofreality)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 47
 

VINI VIDI VICI


   
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 dan
(@dan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 20

   
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 dani
(@dani)
Active Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 14
 

“The Big Lie” at Work

Most people cling to their belief in fiction — that is to say things which may be suppositions or direct lies, or myths, or things for which realistic
substantiation has not been provided — far more passionately than they cling to their belief in “truth”; that is, fact-based or evidentially-based realities.
Partly this is because belief in things which have been accepted as “fact” can be modified by the production of newer facts, without affecting the ego,
or sense of self-worth of the individual. Beliefs which are based on faith alone, and which accord with some sense of correctness within the individual’s
own logic system (but which are not necessarily rooted in facts or evidence), are cleaved close to the breast. That is because, in order to have faith and
to believe based merely on a command to believe a given thing involves committing one’s sense of identity. To doubt one’s beliefs casts doubt on
one’s sense of identity, and identity is the key to self-esteem and survival.

Once a target audience believes in something, based, say, on the statement of a credible leader or leaders, backed by trusted institutions, it is difficult
to dislodge that belief even though massive and overwhelming evidence is produced. And when a leader, supported by various institutions, creates
belief based on a direct lie in a confused situation, where refutative evidence is difficult to produce (or cannot be heard in the clutter of blood-lust and
zeal), then it can reasonably be expected that the truth may never prevail. Or it may emerge so late as to be of little value. In some instances, it takes
the passage of considerable time, perhaps generations, before societies can accept that certain historically-held beliefs were false, and based solely on
lies.

In order to move societies in the direction leaders wish them to go, it is necessary to appeal to belief systems. In normal times, the entreaties of leaders
are subject to a process of debate and logical evaluation by target audiences and by key opinion-shapers. In times of urgency, disaster, chaos or
national emergency, the normal pattern of critical evaluation is lost as the need to confront a perceived common threat dominates the entire society.
Clearly, under such circumstances, leaders (and situations) often cannot tolerate the delay, division and hesitancy caused by a process of debate. It is
easier to coalesce the minds of the leader’s target audiences by crystallizing the argument in such a way that debate is not even considered. If a lie
moves the audience in the desired fashion, then a lie is often used.

Often, it is true that “the bigger the lie, the more easier to sway the audience”; a lie so overwhelming in its audacity that it is inconceivable to believe that
it could be undertaken. This is often justified by the claim that the end justifies the means.

But what if the leader’s desired ends are themselves open to question? Or what if, by using lies to achieve ends, injustices are committed or societies
irrevocably changed for the worse? And if the leader is from a democratically-based system of government, is he ethically able to use such “big lie”
tactics and still claim to be the legitimate leader of an electorally-based state?

Most experienced policy professionals would say that it is sometimes necessary to be “economical with the truth” in order to preserve security, morale
or the process of speedy decisionmaking. But that is very different from basing an entire strategic posture on a bedrock of lies, promoted in such a way
as to create a destructive set of beliefs in the minds of one’s own citizens or foreign target audiences.

What we are seeing now in the so-called Kosovo Crisis is the use of “the big lie” technique on such a massive and repeated scale, primarily by the
Clinton White House, that it has laid the foundation for the destruction of a stable global environment. That is in the medium-term. In the short-term, it
is leading rapidly into a war with no meaningful goals, no prospect for an easy resolution, and with costs which will severely damage the economies not
only of Yugoslavia, but also Western Europe (indeed all NATO countries) and Eastern Europe for some time to come.

For what?

[...]

http://www.strategicstudies.org/crisis/newrome.htm #-NATO


   
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(@spirodreamer)
Trusted Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 75
 

NATO is using radoactive deplated Uranium shells in Kosovo. They are
making Kosovo into a nuclear wasteland (bombs + radioactivity).

This means that when this war is over, everybody returning to Kosovo,
particularly the beloved Albanian refugees, will not need electricity.

They will all glow in the dark!!!
The still born, the mutations and the child deformities.

With "friends" like the US and England, you do not need enemies.


   
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(@spirodreamer)
Trusted Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 75
 

The US is teaching Yugoslavia a lesson in human rights and democracy.
So let us see its track record.

The Yugoslav track record:
In Yugoslavia, the Kosovo Albanians had the rights to their own
language, their own schools and universities and they still do. Serbs
never attempted to assimilate the Kosovo Albanians into Serbia. The
payback for this is that the nationalists amongst Kosovo Albanians
wanted to separate Kosovo from Serbia and join it to Albania.

The US track record:
In the US, in California, the Proposition 227 bans the use of Spanish
language in schools. This is a first step towards forced assimilation
by removing the rights of Latino's to their own language. More bans are
in the planning. The US Administrations, both state and federal, are
gradually reducing the rights of ethnic minorities. At the same time,
they are bombing for "human rights" half way around the world.

A new word in the English language - Clintonesque (adverb, refers to
something that both is and is not, has been done but also has not, makes
sense and does not).

One thing is for sure - the US understands very well the danger of
ethnic instability. This is why the US are curbing the rights of own
ethnic minorities and promoting ethnic conflict in Yugoslavia, Russia,
China and India.

Yugoslavia is just a dress rehersal for the future. In the future, the
US and NATO will become the chief "protectors" of ethnic human rights in
China and India.

Then, there will be nuclear wars.


   
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(@spirodreamer)
Trusted Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 75
 

WAR POWERS ACT - 60 DAYS ALMOST GONE

With the 60 days almost gone (Tomorrow is the last day). How will this affect the situation? Can Clinton still continue to keep U.S. forces involved?

Since this is a NATO activity, does this somehow alter or negate the WPA? What will happen if he continues to involve the U.S.? What of Rep. Bob Campbell's suit to stop the involvement?

- To: JosephW

The War Powers Act is only meaningful if congress
decides to act on it, which, given the repeated, craven
failures of the leadership, is extremely unlikely.
Clinton has shown that he will do whatever he damn well
pleases, and no one seems to be inclined to stop him.
He governs by executive decree and media pandering, and
couldn't care less about congress any more.

- From: Cicero 5/22/1999 13:18:13 PDT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- To: jpsb

Agree. Congress is spinless to do the right thing. Also
they are abdicating their responsibility. The waging of
war has become a "1984" experience in the US. They
don't even call it war. If I were president, I would
proceed based on the funding and just step over a
sleeping Congress.

- From: MsFreedumb99 5/22/1999 13:20:37 PDT

Jai Maharaj
Latest world news at:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/topnews.html


   
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(@spirodreamer)
Trusted Member
Joined: 25 years ago
Posts: 75
 

The bombardment of Yugoslavia is predominantly an Anglo-Saxon war. Here is case in point.

BBC World, 21 May 1999
Fair non-commercial use only

SALMOND LAUNCHES NEW ATTACK ON NATO

Alex Salmond is vigorously opposed to the bombing campaign
The leader of the Scottish National Party, Alex Salmond,
has renewed his criticism of Nato's action in Serbia.

Mr Salmond said that two months of
bombing had made things "infinitely
worse" for the people of Kosovo, and
had created "a humanitarian
catastrophe".

Civilian deaths in the conflict could
not be justified, he said.

The nationalist leader was
condemned at the beginning of the
election campaign for the Scottish Parliament, when he
described the bombing as "unpardonable folly" in a
televised address to the Scottish people.

And his latest remarks have
prompted a vigorous
response from the Defence
Secretary George Robertson.

"Nato is taking action against
Milosevic's military machine
to end the genocidal violence
against the Kosovars and to
enable them to return to their
homes in safety," he said.

"Nato never targets
civilians.Those who say 'stop
now' would consign hundreds of thousands of Kosovars
to permanent exile.

"Just at the point when Milosevic is under maximum
pressure, it is time for Nato and all who believe in
humanity to stand firm and keep their nerve."

Following Mr Salmond's initial criticism of the Nato
campaign, Foreign Secretary Robin Cook said he would
be the "toast of Belgrade" for his anti-bombing stance,
which commentators suggested had cost his party
votes.

Now Mr Salmond has called for a debate on the crisis in
the Scottish Parliament, which has no power over foreign
policy.

'Spilling of blood cannot be justified'

Writing in the Sunday Herald newspaper he said: "The
original reason for the action was to prevent a
humanitarian disaster.

"In fact, a hugely dangerous and uncertain position for
the Kosovar people has been turned into a humanitarian
catastrophe.

"Unless we take the position that the ordinary people of
Serbia have a particular responsibility for the crimes of
Milosevic and his henchmen then the spilling of blood
cannot be justified."


Mr Salmond argued that
support should be given to
the efforts of Russian envoy
Victor Chernomyrdin and
Finnish President Martti
Ahtesari.

He saw promise in attempts
to include the Chinese and
Russians in a deal which
could secure a ceasefire in
Kosovo, end the bombing
campaign, and lead to a
return of the refugees.

He said the United Nations should have had a bigger role
in the crisis, and that effective sanctions should have
been imposed on Milosevic, whom he calls a gangster.

But he paid tribute to British servicemen. He said: "There
is support for service personnel who have been landed
with the extraordinarily difficult taks of prosecuting this

conflict on our behalf.

'Prevailing winds of folly'

"However, the politicians who give orders are not above
criticism.

"Since this war started a Scots Parliament has come
into being, albeit one with no competence in foreign
affairs.

"However, it has the right to speak on anything it
chooses.

"Scotland's new politics should not restrict itself simply
to the domestic. Our Parliament must not be shut away
in a shortbread tin.

"And when our Parliament does speak, then let us hope
it finds the courage, when necessary, to speak with a
different accent on such matters than the prevailing
winds of folly from Westminster."


   
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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 369
Topic starter  

Afroditis,

All my life I have been living in countries with a past, however, not in America, contrary to Maja and Nick. I have even never been to the country!

So, I am very well aware of histroy. Actually, even America is full of ancient history, but you may not realise that, not having taken the trouble of finding out.

I was only trying to tell you that you don't make any sense on the Macedonia subject. Your posting is not understandable. So, don't get all exited now, and calmly and clearly explain it again. Meaybe it leads to me tolerating YOU better!

Zoja


   
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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 369
Topic starter  

To All the Guido's, Emina, Jack, Rosie.

Isn't it great how our beloved patriots byte all the time?? Just like dogs when you hold a sausage in front of their noses. Look at Maja, for example. She thinks she can tell Emina and me all the time we are the same, we and Rosie are bithces, Guido is a stupid moron, Jack is a killer, etc, but if you get back at her..... What do you think, guys, keep it up for a little while longer?

Most of the Serbian conscripted soldiers are drifting towards deserting anyway, so in a little while, Nato doesn't even have to think about ground troops anymore, and these poor lads finally get to go home, where they belong.

Long live a FREE and DEMOCRATIC (o, sorry, let me spell that d-e-m-o-c-r-a-t-i-c) Serbia!

Zoja


   
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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 369
Topic starter  

To Maja (MALA)

The fact you don't even know that in Bosina people call their language Bosnian, goes to prove you have not been in touch with the region for a looooong time. Do you REALLY think Bosnians would keep on calling their incereasingly different dialect SERBIAN??? No way! It's B-O-S-A-N-S-K-I-, hvala puna!

Zoja


   
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 nick
(@nick)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 182
 

The correct quote is:

VENI, VIDI, VICI

Now I have seen everything: This analphabete quoting Latin.

It's like jack london studying for Priesthood or zoja-emina applying for a Supreme Court Judge vacancy.

I saw a short interview of a man from Huntsville, Texas. He said there were 160,000 people living there, of which 50% are prison inmates (!). He said there were many "prison cities" such as Huntsville in the USA. The CNN analyst said that the USA were the country in the world featuring democracy regime with the biggest number of citizens in jail.

I wonder: which side of the bars is guido on ? As far as we know, he could be having is PC right there inside his cell. Now that would explain a lot, wouldn't it ?

We already know he can't read, if he knew then why would he have taken my last post as a reply to his whereas it was to zoja's.

Sad, sad, sad.


   
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 nick
(@nick)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 182
 

By Zoja on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 07:06 am:

"Afroditis,

All my life I have been living in countries with a past"

And with no future.

No, that's bull. You have probably been stuck in Albania or Croatia all your life, and chances are you will never set foot outside. I can tell from your anti-Serb attitude which comes straight from the Croat TV programs engineered by Tudjman showing drunk, fat, evil and rapist Serbs all day.

"however, not in America, contrary to Maja and Nick. I have even never been to the country! "

We all gathered that. Probably for lack of valid papers. What's the matter ? Did you forget to apply with Hacim Taqui ? A bit late now, good riddance.

"So, I am very well aware of histroy."

Ha ! How close are you to the Phd ? Since you know so well, why don't you tell us, in your own words, what really happened in those countries you boast about, taking your time because your emotions often get in the way of your typing, so we can eventually learn something.

"Actually, even America is full of ancient history,"

At least, oof...223 years ! "Ancient", does it start from the beginning of the 20th Century ?

Do you know the US history ? I thought you had never set foot there. Perhaps you took a course over the internet, or through mail order.

"but you may not realise that, not having taken the trouble of finding out."

I wouldn't do that, challenging Afroditis on history grounds. Maybe you want to call Serguei Bubka and advise him to switch to a different composite pole ?

"I was only trying to tell you that you don't make any sense on the Macedonia subject."

And you're one to talk and judge.

"Your posting is not understandable. So, don't get all exited now, and calmly and clearly explain it again."

And you lecture too ! Maybe you are a Phd at University of Zagreb or Tirana (is there such a thing ?)

"Meaybe it leads to me tolerating YOU better!"

I am sure that was Afroditis' goal, tolerance from you. Boy, are we getting obnoxious. Isn't the meaning of tolerance about ALLOWING others to voice opinions (post them), or is it that only some posts in agreement with Zoja's line of thinking are acceptable on this board ?


   
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 nick
(@nick)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 182
 

It's puno hvala, even I know this and I am French. You do not speak the language, even US people know how to write "thank you".


   
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