Daniella,

Hey, marriage never stopped anyone! I'm just kidding too. Tell your husband there's no danger. :O)))))) many smiles

tommygunns

To all:

If any of you have too much free time on your hands [I'm thinking of you T'gunn :o)] and you would like to talk to your friends for the cost of a local phone call, go to
http://traveler.onlive.com/community/trav2dest.html

This is a free half duplex 3D virtual reality chat program. You must have a sound card with speakers and mic on your computer. The person you want to talk to must also have the same software and hardware. The only down side is that it takes about 2-4 seconds befor you begin to hear what the other person is saying and you have to wait til that person is finished talking befor you begin to speak. Other than that, it's like talking on the phone. It uses your browser to interface with the chat program and is sophisticated enough to allow you good control over the VR environment.

I have spoken to people from Egypt, Australia, England and Hawaii, all at the same time.

phil

no. i aint gonna buy it this time.
"re-murdering the dead"?
by DESIGN?
bullsh*t

T'gunn, Mr Dorich's tome is much too vitrolic to be taken seriously. His use of the image of 'remurdering the dead' is, at best, curious, but to damn the children for the sins of the father fatally cripples the points he trys to make against modern day Muslims. phil

L'menexe,

It's a metaphor.

Phil,

You see vitriolic, I see righteous anger.

Ok. No problem.

re: long distance calls.

No, I don't have a lot of time on my hands, but I make a special effort on this forum just for you. It's because I care :OOOOOOOH)

tommygunns

To: PhilTR

But You admit vitriolic-pastoral-martyrish portrayal of Kosovo Albanians in the press? Right?
...but to damn the children for the sins of the father fatally cripples the points he trys to make against modern day Muslims.Don't play tricks and veer the accent by hiding behind the generic word "muslims". And, besides, the area was and is full of home-grown bin-ladens anyway with or without sins of the father, he-he, or Your "vitriolizing".

" But You admit vitriolic-pastoral-martyrish portrayal of Kosovo Albanians in the press? Right? "

Kissie, whether or not the portrayal is over blown or not remains to be seen. First of all, I don't believe one can characterise modern day Balkin Muslims as being Nazi merely because some of their father's were, the current state of their political idology not withstanding. Doing so would require that one ignore the political and ideological changes that have taken place among these Muslims during the past fifty years and would be, in short, an oversimplification.

Lastly, I don't think anyone can objectively take and defend the position that the degreee of brtality experienced by Serbs (either pre or post bombing) matches that experienced by the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo during the bombing. There are only a hand full of ultra nationalistic demagogs who presist in that view. phil

Uh-oh, Phil. Big foot-in-mouth!!

>> Lastly, I don't think anyone can objectively take and defend the position that the degreee of brtality experienced by Serbs (either pre or post bombing) matches that experienced by the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo during the bombing. There are only a hand full of ultra nationalistic demagogs who presist in that view. phil <<

Try telling that to the 1/4 million ethnically cleansed and 14,000 killed Krajina Serbs; or the thousands of displaced and murdered Bosnian Serbs; or the thousands of Serbs who have fled Kosovo over the last 50 years because of Albanian threats and intimidation.

As for the "sins of the fathers" part, let it be known that I am definately NOT anti-muslim and am a long-time support of Yasser Arafat and the PLO - BUT, it is well known and documented that large numbers of battle-hardened Mujahedeen from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, etc., have been involved for years in Kosovo and Bosnia, many of them now with Bosnian citizenship. They ARE NOT interested in an autonomous Kosovo within Yugoslavia any more than they were interested in a multi-ethnic Bosnia.

Phil, I worry about you. I really do. Your "panoramic" views of the world (e.g., from Mulholland in L.A. to your view of Birmingham to the view from the ivory tower of UofA) have isolated and alienated you from that of most mortals. I'm sure the "bombs bursting in air" above the lights of Belgrade was a spectacular sight from Fruska Gora. Just like L.A. from Mulholland hides the ugly truth of South Central.

Peace

tommygunns

Damn! I wish I had more time. There's so much more to say.

tommygunns

" ...the degreee of brtality experienced by Serbs
(either pre or post bombing) matches that experienced by the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo during the bombing. "

T'gunn, I'm merely alluding to the Serbs in Kosovo.

And where on earth are you getting this 1/4 million figure? Not only is Mary (OriginalSources) getting to you, you must be including anyone who feels so inclined, who lived in Europe, and who decided to leave to go to Serbia. I would hope that when qualifying someone as being ethniclly cleansed, the tanks are parked on the edge of town lobing shells into the dachas.

phil

Phil,

EVERY article I have read regarding the "ethnic cleansing" (expulsion, if you will) of Serbs from the Krajina during Croatia's Operation Storm* gives the numbers as 200-250,000 - that's 1/4 million! Plus 12-14,000 killed.

Do you have other figures? From other sources?

>> the tanks are parked on the edge of town lobing shells into the dachas<<

Not quite accurate. What actually happened was this: While U.S. Air Force jets bombed and straffed Serb villages and towns, Serb refugees were herded like cattle into the open where they became easy targets for Croatian snipers.

If it will help you any (and if I can find the time), I will post every reference and source I have re Serb expulsion from Krajina, including the complete articles. I can do that, because I have both digital and hard copies of EVERY article I've posted, plus HUNDREDS more that I've downloaded.

Phil, 'ol buddy, I've been doing my homework. I DO NOT post nonsense to this forum. I read and think very carefully about every article I put out here. And I am VERY sure of myself.

* BTW - Did you know that the Croatian General who headed Operation Storm was the same Agim Ceku who is now the KLA 'Minister of Defense'? Interesting, eh?

Also, one Peter Galbraith, U.S. ambassador to Croatia last seen (on film, in fact) riding through the streets of Lubljana on a Croatian army tank is the very same Peter Galbraith recently seen in Podgorica hunkered down with Djukanovic plotting Montenegro's forthcoming attempt at secession and instigating civil war in what remains of FRY.

Why, Phil, do you persist in naively believing that your government does not engage in the same dirty, evil machinations that all governments throughout history have engaged in? Have you never heard of Waco? Ruby Ridge? Wounded Knee? The firebombing of an entire city block in Philadelphia to destroy MOVE? The 'ethnic cleansing' of the black population of Tulsa, Oklahoma? How about COINTELPRO? Or the FBI's war against and murder of the Black Panthers? Your government's suppression and murder of coal miners in West Virginia? The HUAC? communist hysteria and McCarthyism? The list is as long as the history of the of the U.S.A. - but it shouldn't be surprising in a nation built on the foundations of genocide and slavery!!

Yep, right here in River City, my friend.

And don't get me started on the 'traditional american values' crap, cause I'll have to tell you that there only TWO traditional american values --- PROPERTY and PROFIT --- one begets the other and if you ain't got the first, you won't get the latter, so what you've got, then, is NOTHING. . . and, after all, "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" (I pause for a bow to the late Janis Joplin).

Watch out, Phil, the Evil Empire is in your backyard. If you're not careful, it's gonna bite your ass! :O)

tommygunns

gunns, t

"me and bobby mcgee"
writ by kris kristofferson...

" Phil, 'ol buddy, I've been doing my homework. I DO NOT post nonsense to this forum. I read and think very carefully about every article I put out here. And I am VERY sure of myself. "


hmmmmmm. T'gunn, sounds like a bit of self authenticating going on here. ;o) phil

i'll address the rest of the drivel when I get to the office.

L'menexe

Yeah, I know, but I still prefer Janis.

tommygunns