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Should ground troops be sent ?  

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(@salvatore)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4
22/04/1999 10:13 am  

JACK, I like your stile!!!

JENNY, what can I say? It hurts me knowing you were raped.
And for your questions, it is simple.
The countries you name all belong to the NATO,
are democracies and have a free press.
The governments first of all are ready to talk,
are willing to negotiate and give the people the opportunity to vote. The minoraties have their own political parties. Even the PKK in Turkey.....
And.... alright, I know, we support sometimes not
always the right countries.
But, Serbia's hate is a direct threat to the stability of Europe.
Really, lately I saw Milosevic on the TV and he
talked like HITLER did. "DAS VOLK HAT IMMER RECHT"
and so on and on. No compassion, no hart!
His army is totally brainwashed and full of HATE!

P.S. I would have helped you....we would cry together.


TO ENIMA....
Welkom Enima, welkom....


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
26/04/1999 4:34 am  

by Zoja

HERMINA.

Be careful what you wish for someone. Have you ever been raped? Apparently not, otherwise you would not wish it on someone else. Or are you one of those types wishing her own traumas on others?
If the latrer is the case I can only advise you to seek professional help instead of polluting this message board.


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(@trelaway)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 13
02/05/1999 3:57 am  

Guido--In response to your question below I would say that the USA hasn't a history of intervention in 'ethnic persecution' arenas.

The US flat-out avoided WW2 despite being totally aware of the Jewish plight in Nazi territory. The information gleaned from Nazi medical experimentation was shared worldwide before Pearl Harbour. They coulda got in earlier and just plain didn't.

Vietnam--just an embarassing joke.

If ya wanna discuss ethnic clensing, just look at the north american native people's. A few more generations of reservation life and they'll be another historical footnote.

Humanitarian interests? Who are we kidding? Clean up yer own slums before bombing someone else's. The USA has more people per capita in prison today than ever in it's history.

Y'all got yer own problems.

Besides, war is the best covert deficit spending program around. A license to drive your economy deeper into debt.


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(@jacklondon)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 266
02/05/1999 4:45 am  

What is your point?
Walk away and forget about the abuses
because US has abused in the past?
Indians that once lived in tents
now own Casino's and Hotels.
THEY are not complaining.
Why are you ?

US delayed in fighting NAZI Germany
because of people like Evans and Novak and you
and other ISOLATIONISTS !

Isolate yourself?
ISOLATIONISM - is this the solution you offer?
Stick your head in the ground and forget about the world?
Is that the solution you suggest?

Your tree gives fruits.
But the TREE IS NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE!
You live comfortably in its shadows, comfortably.
What will happen if you isolate its ROOTS like you suggest.
Limit the roots to the immediate vicinity of the tree.
The tree will die soon!
Your comfort will die.

The roots must be allowed to expand - to sustain growth.
If you don't defend the roots - the tree will die.
Isolationism is NOT the solution.
This is the organic law of states.

That which stops growing begins to die.

Is this so hard to understand?


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(@trelaway)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 13
02/05/1999 5:03 am  

America hasn't merely abused in the past. Like I said, yer jails are more full than ever before. Both in sheer volume and per capita. Mostly young black men too.

Isolationist or not it was still AMERICA - land of the *cough* free - that sat back to watch WWII unfold.

I had to laugh at the tree example when you consider that the USA only has about 7% of its original forest land still standing. You're a rape and pillage nation. Why pretend otherwise?

Oh yeah, the reason you don't hear the native people's complaining is because there aren't very many left.

war=deficit spending program

fix your own problems first before pretending to know the solution to others.


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(@jacklondon)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 266
02/05/1999 5:10 am  

Native people are not complaining
They live a prosperous life
Even making more money than YOU are.

They lost land 200 years ago?
So that makes it o.k. for SERBS to deport Albanians?
US abuses in the past make it o.k. for Genocide TODAY in Kosovo?


THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING !


Nothing - not history not politics
Justifies what is happening to the people of Kosovo.

If you are against the abuses TODAY - regardless of
American History
SAY IT !
Let there be no doubt.
Because now there is.

Then we can talk further.
Can you agree with this?


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(@trelaway)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 13
02/05/1999 5:22 am  

I am against abuse. I do not think NATO is the solution. I do not pretend to know how to solve this present conflict but I do know humans have fought continuously for millenia and things are only getting worse.

The more we concern ourselves with borders and ethnicity, the more problems like pollution and human population growth spiral up.

I really do think the world is being sold on this particualr conflict.

I mean, if you take the world as a whole, when hasn't ethnic cleasing gone on, somewhere, on this planet. Frankly, I don't think bombing the •••• our of people is going to curb this dark human fetish.

But, I'm not claiming to know the answer either.


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(@trelaway)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 13
02/05/1999 5:32 am  

BTW, native people are complaining, what are you talking about? Most are not rich but destitute.

war---deficit spending--why, Jack, avoid the most obvious reason the USA supports this particular conflict?


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(@jacklondon)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 266
03/05/1999 10:14 pm  

Trelaway,
You will find people on this board who try
to convince others that this is a major CONSPIRACY
for EXPANSIONISM of NATO, US and Western European holdings.

The rethoric is straight out of the SOVIET ERA
"American Imperialism"
PLEASE !

Here are some simple facts to help them think :

1. CONSPIRACY? EXPANSIONISM ?
NATO can hardly agree on how to act in unity
could they mastermind an extensive conspiracy
which involves the free press of the world,
the largest NGO's of the world,
the governments of 19 independent nations, and so on.

2. MEDIA MANIPULATION ?
They accuse NATO of being propagandists.
But contrary to NATO, any SERB CONSPIRACY
would involve only the SERB STATE and SERB MEDIA.
Not too many free thinkers involved here.
No voice of dissent - of course not.
The few that they had have been anihilated.

Which of the parties above do you think will find it
easier to use and abuse mass media
or orchestrate conspiracies ?

3. EXPANSIONISM ?
They say NATO/USA are after expansionism.
Are you familiar with "GREATER" Serbia.
How expansionist does THAT sound?
I was in Europe when this started in the early 1990's,
the USA was EXTREMELY RELUCTANT to get involved.
So was the rest of Western Europe.
I was pissed and ashamed to see the civilized world do NOTHING
while Milosovic butchered at will.
I advocated intervention since 1992.
Now FINALLY they react -
initially with only mild popular opinion support at home.
They are REACTING - keep that in mind.

4. MOTIVE
I have asked the question repeatedly,
WHAT is the importance of that land?
WHY would Western Europe, USA want it at all?
We can BUY ALBANIA or MONTENEGRO for HALF the price of the bombs dropped today.
Kosovo has no particular importance.

The MOTIVE here is to stop Milosovic.
Stop him before he CONTINUES with the rampage
which he started 10 years ago.
His only objective is to stay in power,
he can do so only as long as the country is at war.

5. INSULTS vs ARGUMENT
To date, nobody has presented any reasonable
argument to support the contention of CONSPIRACY.
All they give is a run-around.

See for yourself,
that the answer to this writing will be insults,
they will not challenge the above with facts,
but with insults.
And in the meantime they skillfully avoid answering these simple question.

6. STOP THE BOMBING ?
When I ask for an alternative to bombing,
all I get is : "bombing is not the answer".
Sure it is not the 'best' solution.
But at this time it is the ONLY solution.
Nobody has been able to suggest better.
TALK HAS FAILED FOR 10 YEARS.

Simply put,
if SERBS don't want to be bombed - they shouldn't start wars!


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(@hilary)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1
04/05/1999 12:10 am  

clinton is mudak


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(@trelaway)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 13
04/05/1999 1:17 am  

Jack,

I don't buy it. Genocide is a daily acivity somewhere on the planet. Why is Yugoslavia so interesting?

BTW, I do have another solution. Distribute the persecuted among the NATO nations as immigrants. Say to them, "Hey, it sucks that you're being persecuted so tell ya what, come to our country and we'll help you start over. Bring your family. Sure, we can afford it til ya get on yer feet; those bombs we decided to not drop saved us a bundle."

Fewer deaths and less destruction.


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(@bazman)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1
05/05/1999 11:19 am  

I'm totally against the milosevic regime and think we should do all we can to stop the atrocities in Kosovo. I don't believe though, that killing innocent serbian civilians is doing anybody much good. It's really pi**ing off the serbians and they think everyone is against them. Why should they stand up against the very person (and the only person in their eyes) who is willing to protect them.

We bomb empty military targets next to hospitals, we bomb empty military targets next to small residential areas and kill 20 people in the process (12 of them children), we hit a train full of civilians (twice) a bus, and we intentionally cut the power to 70% of the country for at least 3 hours. Yeah, ok, that took out their radar and other stuff but it also stopped the life support machines of god knows how many people, turned off the respirators keeping new born babies alive, cut the power in the middle of a life saving operation. I'm against what is happening in Kosovo but I'm not going to back a campaign that is willing to take all these innocent lives and use the excuse "well this is war". If this is war then why are we not willing to risk our troops to save the lives of not only the kosovan albanians but also the serbs we are killing.

We seem to be able to forget that the KLA are not entirely innocent, they have kiilled innocents, yet we are considering giving them weapons to fight with. What happens when they start to kill innocent serbians like the serbs are doing to the kosovans?? Will we jump in and stop them, I don't think so.

We have to send in ground troops and ease the bombing campaign in the civilian areas (not that will make a whole lot of difference when four NATO bombs have already hit Bulgaria, a whole 40 miles off target!!!). Surely our main aim must be to help the kosovan albanians. All we seem to be doing is bombing the serbians, which leads them to murder and slaughter even more people. They'd have probably had more chance of getting out alive if we hadn't have started the bombing. I realise people don't want to see their countrymen die in someone elses war but that is their job, they are paid to do it and they volunteered. They knew what would be involved.

Another thing, NATO say they won't stop the bombing until all serbian troops are out of Kosovo. Any troops we see on the road we bomb. We've got to give them at least one chance to get out without getting bombed in the process. What harm could a couple of days free of bombing do. If no troops were out in the first day then carry on the bombing and resort to another option (I don't pretend to know the answer but surely it is worth trying something).


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(@serpico)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1
07/05/1999 2:42 pm  

You all seem to be intelligent people,
obviously I agree what is happening is a real disaster for the whole world; but I wuold like you to explain me what are Americans doing there, that's to say if you really believe they moved there only because of Kosovo human rights.
Maybe etnical problems in balcanian countries ask
the international community something very different than bombing an European Country.
Please answer me. Thank you.


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(@jacklondon)
Reputable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 266
07/05/1999 10:22 pm  

Serpico,
In essence it is very simple.
Ask yourself - why did the US fight in Europe in WWI ?
Then, why did the US fight in Europe in WWII ?

The same interests are at stake - again.
If you allow one country to build up armed forces,
capable of destabilizing a series of other countries,
you will end up with world wars.

Believe it or not, the WESTERN WORLD as we know it,
is comprised of the American continent, the Europeans, and Australia.
No more to it than that.

Together we represent less than 1/5 of the world.
Read again : less than 1/5 of the world.
Did you think "We Are The World"?
Think again.

If our "Western Civilization" does not grow,
i.e. if Russia sides with the Chinese and the Iraquis,
we become minorities in a world dominated by
ideologies, based on NO-FREE ENTERPRISE,
NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH,
NO DEMOCRACY , and so on.

We MUST defend our 1/5 of the world.
Don't wait until the real war starts
to go out and fight.
Do your best to destroy those that start wars.
Serbs have been at it for 10 years.

Now you have this ranagade country, Serbia,
trying to rock the boat.
Do we stand aside and wait until the bombs start
falling in Madrid, Paris, and London?
Or do we destroy their capability to wage war ?

ONE MAN.

ONE MAN named Milosovic needs war to stay in power.
He is doing his country no favour.
He is doing HIMSELF a favour.

Now, thanx to NATO involvement
(TEN YEARS TOO LATE !)
at this point he can not fight even the KLA.
We have CHECKED his ability to create WW III.

What did he do?
Now he tries to get the Chinese involved on his side!
The world laughs at the attempt.
Except for Serb-lovers on this board.


Any questions?


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 sghh
(@sghh)
New Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 1
07/05/1999 11:29 pm  

LONG LIVE UCK! LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC OF KOSOVA.
KOSOVA FROM NOW ON BELONGS TO ALBANIANS


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