Media, rights groups see Moscow cover-up of Chechnya death
toll

MOSCOW, Jan 24 (AFP) -

Moscow's claim to have lost 600 men since October in the fight to quell rebel Chechnya is under intense
scrutiny, the media claiming a cover-up as human rights groups say scores are being killed daily.

An undercover investigation by the private NTV television station, a lone voice broadcasting a counterpoint to
the official version put out by state-run channels, said around 50 soldiers were being killed in Chechnya daily.

The figure was compiled from reports from witnesses, morgue officials, railway workers and coroner's
assistants given the grim task of cataloguing the cost in human lives of Russia's "anti-terrorist" operation.

One morgue assistant told NTV of 30 bodies a day passing through his service, while a railway official filmed
secretly, said at least 15 coffins, sometimes more, were sent from the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don
to Moscow each night.

"It's never less than 10, sometimes it's up to 50 a day" the rail worker said.

"I handle six to 18 dossiers every day, and there are four of us," coroner's assistant Zinaida Shcherbakova told
NTV's Itogi programme, adding sometimes the work was so depressing she would break down in tears.

The total losses of Russian soldiers and interior ministry troops are "at least 3,000 deaths," said Marina
Fedulova, head of the Association of Soldiers' Mothers.

The preliminary estimate is based on lists of those killed gathered by some 300 regional committees of this
independent organisation which has a reputation for standing up to Russian military authorities.

"We sent a list containing 30 to 40 names to each of the 88 regions or republics of the Russian Federation
(outside of Chechnya)," Fedulova said. "Work it out yourself."

The figure does not include missing troops whose number is unknown, Fedulova said.

Some 600 soldiers who fought in the first Chechen war -- 1994-96 -- are still posted as missing in action more
than three years after the August 1996 ceasefire which ended that conflict, she said.

The latest official death toll issued by Russian authorities said less than 600 soldiers have been killed since
Moscow ordered its troops into the renegade republic on October 1.

"This is a gross lie," Fedulova said.

Her comments were confirmed by Anatoly Kulikov, a former interior minister who commanded federal forces in
Chechnya in 1995.

"I seriously fear that the figures on human losses are being deliberately lowered," Kulikov told the daily
newspaper Sevodnya, saying his doubts were based on information from personal contacts among the federal
forces.

Separately, an AFP correspondent interviewing soldiers around Grozny on Sunday counted up to some 50
federal soldiers who had been killed around the separatist capital over a three-day span.

So far the Chechen war has boosted acting President Vladimir Putin's popularity among Russian voters some
two months before the March 26 presidential election. Heavy casualties could damage that lead in the polls.

NTV complained at the weekend that its crew in the war zone had been blacklisted after it had interviewed a
senior officer who gave casualty figures at variance with official statistics.

Colonel Alexander Petrovskikh, who commands the interior ministry troops on the eastern front, told NTV that
45 soldiers were killed in a single attack by the Chechens against a military column near Argun on January 9.

The information contradicts the official account of Russian losses in the clashes, which lasted several days in
the areas of Shali, Argun and Gudermes. Russia said on only 26 federal soldiers in total had been killed.

23 Jan 2000: Russian Prisoner No. 2: Christov Alexander, 301st Special Air Division

Q. Identify yourself

A. My name is Christov Alexander. I am 19-years old and from the province of Siberia. I joined military service
last year and was attached to the 301st Special Air Division.

Q. How were you captured?

A. My unit was given orders to move from Botlikh (Dagestan) to the province of Vedeno in Chechnya. The unit
was divided into two groups. Each group included 14 soldiers and two officers, all of whom were traveling in
trucks. The plan was to move from two directions through the valley and from the mountain. Each route would be
taken by one of the two units. We moved for an entire day and spent one night in Chechnya. On the second day,
a jeep that was being used by the Mujahideen approached us at about 10:00 a.m. None of us (Special Air
Division troops) saw them (the Mujahideen) coming, even though our commanders had positioned two soldiers
as lookouts on a nearby height. (When the jeep approached) The commander gave an order for the unit to
conceal itself. And, after a few minutes, the jeep stop and the Mujahideen commenced firing at us. I'm not sure
who actually started the shooting. Before we knew it, we were under fire: All of the 14 soldiers in my unit in the
valley and the 14 men on the heights were killed, with the exception of myself and one of my colleagues; both of
us were captured after having sustained injuries.

Q. What were the operations that you were commissioned with? What orders were you issued?

A. We were ordered to penetrate deep into Chechen territory and to move on foot for about 15 kilometers per
day until we joined-up with the other 14-man unit. It was then planned that the two units would reconnoiter the
roads and vicinity around Vedeno in order to pinpoint the locations of the Mujahideen.

Q. Are Russian forces using new tactics that differ from those executed during the first Chechen war?

A. The officers of our division informed us that the Russian military would not commit the errors of the first war,
and that we would undertake operations employing new tactics. However, I witnessed for myself that there were
no new strategies or tactics. The proof of that materialized when all of the men in my unit were either killed or
wounded, even though the odds placed 28 of us (from the Special Air Division), and only five of the Mujahideen

Q. How would you describe the morale of the Russian forces?

A. There is no morale amongst all of our troops. Everybody (Russian soldiers) are hoping to desert, or for their
conscription terms to expire in hope of returning home. (The situation is aggravated) because of the
exceedingly poor treatment we receive from the officers and the mercenaries who are serving alongside the
regular army. (For example) we suffer severely from cold and malnutrition. However, when supplies are
received, the officers and the mercenaries keep all the stocks for themselves.

Q. How would you describe the morale of the Mujahideen in Chechnya?

A. I don't understand what you mean. But what I can say is that the Chechens are fighting for their land, and we
are nothing but strangers who will soon be on their way out (of Chechnya). As for the Mujahideen, I can say that I
saw how strong their morale was; after all, a group of only five of them wiped out an entire unit of the Special Air
Division. I don't know why we are fighting this war. The average Russian soldier knows nothing about this war,
while the Mujahideen know what they are fighting for and why.

Q. What are the reasons for the war against the Republic of Chechnya?

A. I do not know, for after we left our barracks, we were not allowed to listen to radios or to watch television. We
know nothing about this war and why it is being fought.

Q. Whom do you expect will win this war?

A. I do not know, but I think this war will end like the first war, and that the Russian government will have to sign
an agreement with the Mujahideen in Chechnya.

Q. What would you like to say to the Russian government and military?

A. I want to say that none of the sons of senior politicians or high-ranking military officers are here with us here
in the front-lines. What will the Russian government tell the Russian mothers whose sons were killed? What will
they tell the wife of an officer who gave birth to a child whose father was killed in battle? They all lied to us. They
told us that we were going to Dagestan, but look at us today, we are prisoners in Chechnya. They just gave us a
few weapons and pushed us into this failed war.

Q. What have you heard about the Mujahideen?

A. We were told that the Mujahideen tortured prisoners, and that they slit the throats of those whom they
captured. We were told that the Mujahideen took pleasure in amputating the ears and noses of the prisoners;
that Shamil and Khattab enjoyed killing prisoners, and that it would be better for a solider to commit suicide that
to fall prisoner. However, we have seen the Mujahideen as not being like that. Nobody hit or abused us; instead,
we were treated for our injuries.

tres bien!

23 Jan 2000: Russian Prisoner No. 3: Zawazan Nikolai Niklabovic, Special Air Division

Q. Identify yourself?

A. Zawazan Nikolai Niklabovic, (a Crucifixer) from the province of Beshkeria. I joined the Special Air Division of
the Russian military last year.

Q. How were you captured?

A. I arrived in Dagestan three days ago and immediately joined the Special Air Division units that crossed into
Chechnya. (This prisoner recounted the same story as the former prisoner). When we came under fire, my
commander ordered me to deploy smoke bombs in order to cover the unit's retreat. I threw the first bomb, but it
did not explode. When I tried to throw the second bomb, it exploded in my hand, severing two fingers of my right
hand. When we saw the Mujahdieen approach us, we implored them not to kill us, and we surrendered to them,
handing over all of our weapons, upon which, the Mujahideen took us to hospital for treatment.

Q. What were the operations that you were commissioned with? What orders were you issued?

A. Same answer as previously stated by prisoner no.2

Q. Are Russian forces using new tactics that differ from those executed during the first Chechen war?

A. There is no new strategy. We saw how aircraft and artillery bombard the Chechen villages, killing and
wounding the innocent. I have been a prisoner of the Mujahideen in the town of Vedeno, and have seen how
Russian artillery bombards the town, falsely believing that it is destroying Mujahideen positions. For Russia, this
war (as in the first war) is one where heavy weapons are used ineffectively from afar.

Q. How would you describe the morale of the Russian forces?

A. Initially, I refused to fight. But I was forced into battle against my will. The officers' main concerns are
maintaining position and receiving accolades (medals) The officers do not care about the soldiers and their
morale. We do not know what we are fighting for and we have no goals in this war, that is why we also have no
morale.

Q. How would you describe the morale of the Mujahideen in Chechnya?

A. The Mujahideen are fearless, and that is because they are fighting for their homeland.

Q. What are the reasons for the war against the Republic of Chechnya?

A. I do not know, but there are elections coming up in Russia, and this war is probably because bureaucrats
like the Prime Minister (Putin) and the officers, are vying for power and position in the government.

Q. Whom do you expect will win this war?

A. I think this war will be won by those who live upon this land. The Russian military believes it can defeat the
Mujahideen, but it will not succeed.

Q. What would you like to say to the Russian government and military?

A. I call upon the Russian government to stop this failed war. Should a foreign invader attack our country, then
we will fight, and we will know what we are fighting for. Oh you officers! stop sending troops (to their deaths) It is
not you (the officers) who are dying, it is us, the average soldiers who are dying. If one of you officers were
wounded and captured like me, you would have stopped the war. The soldiers don't even know how to use their
weapons, look at me, I was injured and had part of my hand severed.

Q. What have you heard about the Mujahideen?

A. Contrary to what our officers told us, the Mujahideen took us immediately (from the battlefield) to the hospital
were we received immediate first aid, and then continued our treatment. We eat as the Mujahideen eat…all of what the Russian government says about the Mujahideen is lies.

By balalaika {THE ALTER BOY} ( - 210.138.34.100) on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 11:16 am:


is that the best you can come up with.why are u defending the pastors you probably got and still getting bumed every sunday when you go to church no wonder you enjoy going to church so much...

RUSSIA FROM SUPER POWER TO SUPER PAUPER


RUSSIA THE GREAT SUPER PAUPER STATE

I really have not taken any sides on this issue but the above so called transcripts from a captured Russian are so obivously made up its laughable. This is just like some posts about Kosovo that are so well "packaged" that all they can be considered as is some type of propaganda that some yahoo put on the web. I mean come on the Russian using the word Mujahideen to refer to the Chechens.

>By Onlooker ( - 131.193.9.116) on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 11:32 am:

23 Jan 2000: Russian Prisoner No. 3: Zawazan Nikolai Niklabovic, Special Air Division

>Q. Identify yourself?


Hey you, imposter!
Stop using my username to post your excerpts!! Try to use something of your own!!

For everybody: This BS that was sent from 131.193.9.116 is not mine!

Do you understand me, you, MOFO?

Onlooker.

By Gonzo ( - 208.23.220.30) on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 12:02 pm:


RAS-PUTIN " ALL IS GOING AS PLANNED"

NO CASUALTIES TO REPORT ON RUSSIAN SIDE.
100 REBELS KILLED TRYING TO FLEE GROZNY..
WE ARE STIIL A GREAT SUPER PAUPER STATE

HOW MANY REBELS ARE LEFT IN GROZNY?

January 24, 2000

Kavkaz-Tsentr reports:

Despite the Kremlin's propaganda the Russian General Malofeyev is living, says the Chechen General Baudi Bakuyev. Malofeyev has been captured by the Chechens on January 19 and was brought to the mountains. But indeed he was wounded yesterday: The village he has been brought to was attacked by the Russians with bomber-planes. During the bombardment Malofeyev has been wounded heavily, the Russian colonel captured together with him died. Malofeyev's medical state is critical,

adder21,

>>>is that the best you can come up with.why are u defending the pastors you probably got and still getting bumed every sunday when you go to church no wonder you enjoy going to church so much...

how do you know?!! wonna join our church? we are meeting next sunday.

By balalaika ( - 210.138.34.100) on Monday, January 24, 2000 - 12:33 pm

how do you know?!! wonna join our church? we are meeting next sunday


NO THANKS WE LIKE WOMEN WE DONT LIKE ••••••• CHILDREN YOU SICK BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!

2) yes, i am happy and joyfull to see and hear the suffering of army who is killing, gasing and butchering innocent civilians.
* Eh, a known pretext. When a bandit is a moslem it's OK for him to kill, when that bandit gets kicked - it's "decried" by fellow provocateurs as "persecution" of an innocent moslem. And no facts to the contrary will help.
And who decides if cause is just Allah or fanatics(bandits) WOE?
* They still search for His IP and in the meantime ... .
... but not what you said about foreign fighters. They are there not to make money, or have a holiday. ...
* Paid in good green dollars.
Everybody has to make their own judgements as best they can, given the knowledge they have
and the circumstances they are in. Allah will decide in His Good Time who deserves what, based
on ALL the facts, as only He Knows all. The results and punishment/reward could happen in
this world or in the hereafter and are entirely up to Him.
* And in the meantime ... .
I have no pity for rapists, thieves, or killers, but somehow I can not help feel sory for the average Russian soldier.
* So, "brave and honest" mujas are fighting the RF Army of "rapists, thieves, or killers"?
one Russian security expert claims that Turkey's military potential is now greater than Russia's.
* Sure, the Turkish Air Force, for instance, conducts live-fire training on Kurdish people all the time.
The change is a confession of weakness.
* I wouldn't settle for such wide-eyed wild-ass conjectures.

NO THANKS WE LIKE WOMEN WE DONT LIKE ... CHILDREN YOU SICK BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!
* Does that justify an awful high rate of homosexuality (including paedophilia) found in closed societies?

Adder21,

Do you have the web address of the pro-rebel site?
I would appreciate it very much.