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Archive through March 24, 2000

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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
Topic starter  

Kissie-san,
about financing the campaign - you're right on the moneeeey(as usual)..Iranians, for instance, just luv'em old MIGs and SU's..


   
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(@gonzo)
Reputable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 397
 

doesn't russia have its only aircraft carrier up for sale. Hey they can get a few bucks for that.


   
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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
Topic starter  

few bucks? how about tanker, full of top-quality Iranian "black gold"? lolol..


   
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(@gonzo)
Reputable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 397
 

Dimitri, you know what we should do. since the USA and russia both have big armys and lots of power. We should stop snyping at each other and team up and take over the rest of the world. Hey more free stuff. Oh yea you take out China well take out canada πŸ˜‰


   
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(@betterthanyou)
Reputable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 386
 

Yes russia does have it up for sale, the Phillipines are going to buy it and use it for a ferry to get from island to island. You are right Gonzo, if it came to nukes I would prefer that we back out and let the hethens take care of each other...


   
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(@betterthanyou)
Reputable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 386
 

Gonzo,
I've thought about that too!!! But then we would have to worry about Russian officers selling their weapons to the enemy for hashish!!!


   
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 ka
(@ka)
Estimable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 128
 

Dimitri,

From what I gathered, the Russians are pissed off with the Latvians for jailing this guy for whatever it was he did. (I still have no idea what the charges are or what the evidence is) and are considering sanctions.
The Latvians are pissed off at the Russians interfering in what they consider their own affair.(I am making no judgement there-just repeating what I read).

The main Russian objection seems to be that the Latvians are prosecuting/persecuting those who were on the Red Army side and not those who sided with the Waffen SS. (neither side particularly appreciated by the Lithuanians, can't speak for the Latvians)There also is the ongoing problem of the Russianspeaking section of Latvian society.(This you might find controversial, but those Russians came to be there because of the relocation policies of the soviets.)

So rather than throwing their weight around and thus pissing off the Latvians...
(After all Russia isn't too keen on Western interference in Chechnia)... Why doesn't the Russian government provide the Latvians with all the evidence they have on these alleged Nazi's,
so they can be prosecuted as well.

I know I have said this before, but we or I don't actually know what the charges are. This man could
have been a serial killer for all I know. Does an individual case, constitute organised rascism?
(that is a genuine question.) If you or Igor can give me more information on the charges,I will be
able to make up my mind.

There, I hope that was less confrontational.

Kim


   
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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
Topic starter  

Gonz..no way, dude! There can be only one ruler..besides, it's not fair - taking Canada would be a pice of cake..and China..oh, boy..we're talking about zillions-gazillions of them to deal with..

on this note, I am taking off..good talking to ya, Gonzo..

see ya'll on Teusday - VEGAS, HERE I COME!!!!!!!!


   
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(@dimitri)
Noble Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 2221
Topic starter  

Kim,
thank you for responce..I am on my way to the airport now, so I'll have to be brief. From what Latvian president says, this guy, who was a Russian parizan and later on member of the Red Army, was accused of killing latvian citizens..there's a trick though - those citizens were so called "politzai", or local police force for the Nazis. I don't know about you, but I(and honestly trying not to be one-sided)don't see a war crime in that situation. So I have absolutely no choice but to assume that it is being done out of...well you know what I am thinking. Again this is a very brief description of the situation, I literally have a plane to catch, Vegas and Palm Springs just can't wait for my arrival ;)))
If you interested in finding out more - I'll be back on Tuesday. Igor, perhaps, is another one who's interested in it as well.

Anyhoot, hope you won't experience any clouds over Geneva's sky this weekend πŸ™‚
Stay cool,
D.


   
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 help
(@help)
New Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 1
 

After Latvia regained independence in 1991, it vowed to prosecute both Soviet and Nazi war criminals. Many Latvians say Soviet and Nazi fighters were equal evils during the war, and have argued that Russians have largely refused to confront the horrors committed by their soldiers and sympathizers during the war.

Vasily Kononov, 76, was accused of murdering nine people, including a pregnant woman and several children, during a raid on a small Latvian village in 1944. Many of victims, according to the Latvian prosecutors office, were burned alive. Kononov adamantly denied the charges, saying the civilians died in the crossfire in a battle between the partisans and units backed by the occupying Germans.


   
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(@jakeb)
Estimable Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 148
 

Does Russia really matter?

Russia is a has been country. It has 0 value in the real world. Truely great countries like Israel are facing immense problems from filthy Russian immigrants who just want to economically benefit themselves, stinking Palestinians and traitorous secular 'fake' Jews.

I believe it would be better for Russians to earn their own money than rely on handouts from Israel, USA and other benefactor countries. Israel needs as much money as possible to take care of all the problems Palestinians, Russians and other migrants have created. Maybe the Russians should 'export' some of their goy women to earn foreign currency than rely on foreign aid. That is all the Russian women are good for anyway.


   
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 help
(@help)
New Member
Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 1
 

Yoo-hoo! New script writer's just got hired. Now it's Radio Islam speaking...


   
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(@antonio)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 240
 

ROME, SEP 7, 1999 (ZENIT).- "Conwell's book is very confusing. It's not really an historical analysis. There are no documents to back up his
theories. Pius XII is charged with very serious accusations, without any real proof."

This was Father Pier Blet's outright rejection of the new book "Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII," by British author John Cornwell and
polemically excerpted in the American Magazine Vanity Fair.

Fr. Blet, together with Angelo Martini, Burkhart Schneider and Robert A. Graham, was co-editor of the twelve-volume work "Acts and Documents of the Holy See During the Second World War," which was a complete collection of all material on the subject stored in the Vatican's Secret Archive, opened for this project by direct order of Pope Paul VI to dispel unsubstantiated rumors of Pius XII's "silence" during World War II.

Fr. Blet is a world-renowned historical scholar. In March, 1998, when journalists asked John Paul II, on his way to Nigeria about the alleged
silence of Pius XII, the Pope answered: "A sufficient answer has already been given, just read Fr. Blet's' book." A little over a year later, few seem to have taken up the Pope's invitation; many others, nevertheless, have decided to continue believing the more or less fictitious
exaggerations and fantasies still propagated about the episode.

Fr. Blet spoke to ZENIT about Pius XII and the new book.

ZENIT: According to Cornwell, Pope Pius XII actually facilitated Hitler's rise to power because, by signing the Concordant between the Holy See and Germany, he accepted the dissolution of the Central Party, which effectively removed any opposition to the Nazi's rise to power.

FR. PIERRE BLET: Beside the fact that at the time Pius XI was Pope, who was the person responsible for signing that document, there is no proof to support that theory. In fact, it seems that (Cardinal) Pacelli was very much against the decision of the German Catholics to dissolve the Central Party. To base the accusations against Pacelli as a supporter of Nazism on this "hypothesis" seems to me, quite frankly, exaggerated.

ZENIT: And what about the signing of the Concordant with the Third Reich?

FR. BLET: What else could have been done to protect the Church in Germany? Refusing to sign the Concordant with the Nazis would have meant abandoning Catholics into the hands of the new (political) power and there would have
been no possible line of defense.

The Holy See was not naΓ―ve regarding Hitler's regime. Referring to the Concordant, Pacelli once confided: "I just hope they don't violate all the clauses at the same time."

ZENIT: Cornwell claims that Pacelli was anti-Semitic.

FR. BLET: Regarding the relationship between Pius XII and the Jews, there is a great deal that the British author ignores. He only quotes the
negative documents against Pius XII while systematically avoids mentioning the numerous messages of thanks from many Jews saved by the Church. As far as the (accusation of) silence is concerned, we know very well that any
public protest against Nazism would have provoked a disaster. Not only against the Catholics but, especially, against the Jews. Cornwell claims that the only public protest of Pius XII was that of Christmas, 1943, but he doesn't mention the Consistorial Address of June 2, 1943, when Pius XII strongly protested in favor of innocent persons being sent to their death.
In this very speech, Pius XII explained that his protest could not be any stronger "because we must to be careful not to harm those who we want to save."

ZENIT: Cornwell claims that Pius XII was convinced of the connection between the Jews and Communism.

FR. BLET: That's an old story. Pius XII is accused of being obsessed with Communism and, as a consequence, he wasn't able to see the Nazi menace. The fact is that he was very conscious of the dangers of both Communism and Nazism. Regarding the Bolchevichs, when American Catholics questioned economic assistance to the Soviet Union, Pius XII intervened by saying that the prohibitions he had mentioned in the Encyclical against Communism did not apply to those circumstances. Thus, he demonstrated that he wasn't motivated by political ideologies.

In reality, I think Cornwell's book doesn't just want to discredit Pius XII. It's actually more an attack on the Catholic conception of the papacy.
In fact, in the book he protests against the way bishops are appointed by the Pope. He criticizes the First Vatican Council's declaration of
infallibility as well as the definition of Marian dogmas. According to Cornwell, all Popes are dictators. In the last chapter he criticizes John
Paul II because, in his opinion, he has governed the Church in an even more authoritative manner than Pius XII.

ZENIT: The Italian Paulist Press just announced the release of your own new book, "Pius XII and the Second World War." Could you tell us a little about the contents?

FR. BLET: Unlike Cornwell, I limit myself strictly to the documentation. It's a synthesis of the twelve volumes of documents published by the
Vatican Press, where you can see what the Holy See did during the Second World War, day by day and hour by hour. Specifically, it demonstrates how Pius XII did everything possible to promote peace, first by trying to avoid
the occupation of Poland, then by trying to keep Italy out of the war. Vatican diplomacy tried to convince Mussolini to abandon the Axis.

Regarding the Jews, the documentation clearly shows how Pius XII carefully considered what would be the best way to help them. He wanted to make a public declaration, but even the Red Cross dissuaded him, because a public
statement was useless, especially against a regime like Hitler's and, in the end, it only would have caused more harm to those he wanted to save. My book also shows how Pius XII was very worried about the situation of German
Catholics. A declaration against Germany would have provoked a severing of ties with the Pope and would have played into the hands of Nazi propaganda, which portrayed Pius XII as an enemy of Germany.

Pius XII knew the nature of Nazism very well. The son of the French Ambassador in Rome has said that, in a luncheon with the Pope, one of the guests remarked that perhaps it was better after all to have Hitler in power than the Prussians. Pius XII quickly interrupted and said: "You don't realize what you're saying. The Prussian generals do have their defects,
but the Nazis are diabolical."


   
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(@antonio)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 240
 

For those interested in the Vatican's assistance of Jews during the war: The true story of Father Hugh O'Flaherty, a monsignor at the Vatican at that time. The story is well represented in the movie The Scarlet and The Black.


   
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(@antonio)
Estimable Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 240
 

Pope Gregory IX says: "Ungrateful for favors and forgeful of benefits, the Jews return insult for kindness and impious contempt for goodness."


   
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