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(@johncauthen)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 25
November 6, 2001 1:58 pm  

When I looked into the Terrorist vs World System war, I was surprised to see the two sides lined up precisely according to my own complaints.

In America we proudly say, "Anyone can get ahead, and I will defend that principle with my life."

Yes... but... what about the people who don't necessarily want to get ahead? the people who just want to serve God and live a peaceful life doing a simple job?

What if you were to go into a McDonald's, and a man in traditional Moslem dress walks up behind the cash register and says in a gentle Moslem voice, "May I help you?"

What if that man was making $100 a day, and working a six hour shift? Then he has the money and the time to live his own life. That is do-able in today's economy. We can pay people who have regular jobs three times more than we are playing them. And it's okay if they express who they are when they are working. I went to a McDonald's on Halloween (over fifteen years ago, I don't go into McDonalds anymore because the food is no longer good). A girl behind the counter was wearing a traditional Old World costume. It seemed perfectly natural and right. She was beautiful. But then I remembered it was Halloween. In America, on our jobs, we don't express who we really are. We fit ourselves in a mold. But some people, especially typcial Muslims, can't do that. They can't be Moslem and get a job at McDonalds. And if they did have a job at McDonalds, even if they were allowed to look like they want to, the job itself is demeaning because they have to work all day long and they don't make enough to even live their own life. After shaving their beard, cutting their hair, and totally violating their own soul, their reward is they don't make enough to get by.

There is the story of Sampson, in which Sampson's hair was cut and the spirit of strength departed. We are castrating people, if they want to have a job. It's funny, the people who did this to Sampson 4000 years ago were Palestinians.

Now, there are the people running McDonalds always saying, "I wish I could get decent people working for me who are not Bozos, who look like they are supposed to look and do what they are supposed to do!" These managers aren't realizing in our economy they could pay people three times more money. A full-time shift could be six hours. The minimum wage should be $16 an hour (with exceptions where paying that much per hour hurts the employee, like in a summer job for students, and in waitress jobs where they can make more money in tips than in salary). Actually, at Steak and Shake they make $16 an hour because they get tips, and at the McDonalds across the street they make $6 an hour. Steak and Shake is doing just as well as McDonalds. We can afford to pay "Lessor Sons" a lot more money and give them a lot more freedom.

We can do that in America and thoughout the world. But there is this Ultra Right, Fundamentalist, Communist group of people who all have one agenda. They want to keep the world from being wealthy. They think the problem is people are having too much fun. That people are too happy, they make too much money.

If a light simply came on in manager's heads, they would realize they could pay their regular workers a lot more money, and work shorter hours, and those people would buy more products and we could save the economy. Because it is going great right now. But if they succeed in destroying the economy by having a war, which is essentially a war between people who don't necessarily want to fit in and people who do fit in to get rich, there will be much less money and we will be back to a world where only a few can have any money.

If they let bin Laden speak, I am sure he would be saying many of these same things and people might understand. He is an amazingly charismatic man, nevermind he kills people, we kill people too, but he is the most charismatic man I have ever seen. The problems are simple to solve, but they mainly need to be explained very well and very powerfully.


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(@disgustedwoman)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 6, 2001 3:42 pm  

Oh my...two quick things this evening as my connection is not holding. Cor blimey...Maggie Thatcher. Between her and Ronnie invading the Falklands and Grenada respectively. Don't even get me started on her lying about blowing up that Argentine ship that was sailing AWAY from the blockade area and she was challenged by a housewife on UK TV about it all. Maggs was in a right state over it all. Thanks for reminding me of her reign of "error" !

U*S*A has reminded me with a real poke in the butt about something that we don't quite seem to have a handle on. Because the almost 5,000 souls had their bodies vaporized, there have been no physical bodies to count, mourn and have services for. It's like they simply disappeared to us who do not live near NYC or directly have relatives/friends suffering loss of someone. It's not quite REAL in some ways and perhaps that makes it difficult to keep the goal of why we are looking for the Taliban members involved and OBL. They are directly responsible for the murders of 5,000 people ALL AT ONCE. And we suffer daily criticism for the civilian casualties that are terrible, but not intentional. If the T & OBL would stop hiding among their civilians, this would not be constantly brought up in foreign presses, even in Europe. They cannot see OUR casualties, the dead people from Sep 11.

Any thoughts on this point...which I probably did not put very well???

Oh AA...I think Maggie had out of control menopausal estrogen...that can be much worse than too much testosterone! Thanks for a smile on that one! Bless you!

John, You are wise not to eat at MickeyD's...the cholesterol and carbos just turn us into even fatter Americans.

That article about Bin-Laden being visited in the hospital by CIA...here is the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4289417,00.html


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(@justhefacts)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 27
November 7, 2001 9:00 am  

To John C.

First of all, living in the US does not force our Moslem men to cut off their hair and beards. In fact only a very small proportion of Muslims in the entire world sport Taliban/Bin Laden hirsute fashion sense. The Sunni vs. Shi-ite issue has facial hair has one of it's many layers.
Secondly, the Muslem community of US is not a poor community. Traditionally they adapt very well to thw Western lifestyle, placing great emphasis on education and training for respected professions while maintaining their own beliefs and identities. The poverty endemic to Native American and African American communities is just not found in US Muslim communities.See how many Muslem refugees risk life and limb to seek asylum in the West. The recent tragic drownings of those trying to reach Australia are a good example, they passed by both Malaysia and Indonesia (world's largest Moslem country ) to seek asylum in Australia. They knew they were heading towards employment/healthcare/ food on the table and EDUCATION. Their beards were not foremost on their minds.
Thirdly, yes I would like to be paid more and know for a fact that my employer could afford to pay us a little extra and still be a multi-millionare, but that is just a pipe dream.

Also agree Mcd's is garbage food, and that Bin Laden is charismatic. So is Charlie Manson. And remember that every human society since beginning of time has made success and acceptance easier for those that conform to the standards of the majority. Nobody on the face of this earth has more personal freedom to be who they are than An American Citizen, male or female.

To Disgusted
Belgrano was steaming away from the war zone so her sinking and subsequent loss of life was rightly denounced by many around the world. However it does play in the back of my mind that the destruction of the Belgrano probably saved many British lives, and played a role in shortening the conflict. Also Maggie Thatcher was lone voice at the beginning of Bosnia tragedy, calling for the West to lift ban on arming the Bosnian Muslems and defend themselves,and if that failed then direct military intervention. She was ignored and the rest is history. Her alternative history may well have been just as bloody, but Srebenica and other civilian massacres would (probably) not have happened.

Hey AA
wherefore art thou O Diddley Daddy. How's your boy ?


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 turk
(@turk)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 8, 2001 5:59 pm  

Don't sell weapons to third world countries.Force and warn all other developed countries not to give or sell weapons to third world countries . Give food , drug and education to these poor people.Improve life standards of these people. US and other developed countries should stop the hatred and hostile ideologies of these poor people against developed nations , by training and education. Most of these poor people see US and other developed countries as monsters and enemies. If you want to stop terrorist attacks, you should stop this hatred first. You should change their minds. US must tell the world that they don't fight against muslims, but they mainly help northern Afghan armies. Northern Afghan armies also are in this war and they are on US' side, but nobody considers this subject enough. US should want more military power from other islamic countries to join US forces.


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(@marie_granieri)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 9, 2001 12:02 am  

Hello,

My name is Marie and I lost my brother in the WTC attack on America. Let me first share the deep sorrow with all of you/family members who have lost people so close and so loved.

I represent several other families and come to you with a request on behalf of our loved ones still missing at the WTC. You may have all heard about the recent scuffle that took place at ground zero over the reduction of the number of firemen staffed to locate and find the bodies of those lost. We support our firemen with our hearts but fear that once all the firemen have been found (and we pray that indeed that does happen) that there will be no one left to ensure that the same determined effort remains to find our family members as well. The problem is that we have no union to help us and no public forum to speak out. So we've started a letter writing and telephone campaign to be heard.

We the families of the victims need to unite and speak out against any effort to reduce the recovery effort. We must do all we can to prevent the city's efforts to transition ground zero from a dignified recovery operation to a scoop and dump operation. We have gained some ground but our fear remains that no one will be there to speak for our loved ones, once the firemen are found.

If you are interested in becoming more informed and helping us to protect our loved ones right to a dignified recovery effort, please email me. We need to protect the right of our loved ones to a burial that is dignified and respectable. They may never find my brother, but perhaps we can help find as many family members as possible through a united voice.

I hope to hear from anyone that wishes to support our grassroots effort.

Marie


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(@justhefacts)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 27
November 9, 2001 10:18 am  

Marie,
I am sure I speak for the others on this board in extending our condolences and prayers to you and your family. The issue you have raised is important and a concern to many Americans, New Yorkers or not. Your voice is not falling on deaf ears.


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(@johncauthen)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 25
November 9, 2001 10:19 am  

I suggested that the buildings were not really brought down by the airplane attacks, but by internal charges planted by insiders, in advance.

If workers search through the wreckage for the remains of loved ones, they might also find evidence that the buildings were actually brought down by a dynamite implosion, like a building that is demolished in a city to build something new in its place. This theory I have does not disrespect anyone who died; but what I saw when the buildings came down looked just like a building demolition, not a collapse from fire. The US is now using those attacks as a excuse to drop tons and tons and tons of bombs on another country, when rationally, all we needed to do was get the people who attacked the buildings.

And yet, bin Laden had worked for the CIA. CIA agents visited him when he was in the hospital. When Clinton tried to kill him, bin Laden mysteriously left only 45 minutes before the missles hit. When we had another high terrorist in our sites in Afghanistan, recently, higher-ups stopped our soldiers from killing him. These are things that don't make sense. It is odd they are no longer looking for remains, especially if they are spending a billion dollars to clean up the site. That seems like a lot of money for a clean up. They got nervous and uptight when debris was put in other places than the official places it was supposed to be put. Besides the remains of loved ones, there is a lot of scrap metal that can be sold. We are paying a lot of money to completely dispose of that building. It's like they are getting rid of evidence. It doesn't make sense not to find people's remains, and not to welcome salvage companies to come in and help remove and sell the scrap metal. This would make the clean up operation a lot cheaper.

So far, everything they are doing, especially the things that don't make sense are completely consistent with the theory that they blew up their own building to give them an excuse to go to war against something that none of us really understand. What are they so mad about with Afghanistan that they want to spend two years and American lives in that country? Getting rid of the Taliban and bin Laden should take our military about two weeks, maybe three, not two years, not a "long time". Digging up people's remains and putting them in a garbage dump, not to mention a lot of very valuable scrap metal is insane and makes no sense. Are they trying to cover up evidence?


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(@anotheramerican1)
Eminent Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 41
November 9, 2001 12:37 pm  

To Marie,
To say I am support of your position is an understatement. There, in that rubble, supposedly lies the reason for all our actions to date.

We were told in many speeches, at many functions about the sanctity of the lives lost. I remember being told how ground zero was a shrine to those innocent souls who were at work or, even more moving, were performing rescue missions. We were led to believe that all effort would be made to rescue those that survived and, failing that, to identify those that died and to treat their remains, as minute as those were, with the utmost respect.

I think we have been let down at the very least and deceived at the worst. I tend to believe the latter. Why? because it is so soon after all those promises are made to say that a change of heart or a change in situation has occured. There hasn't been anything that any of us could see. To hear the same R. Guiliani say that the now cleared and stabilized ground zero is more dangerous and thus his ordering a reducton of staff, when he was touring the site and exhortng the troops on when things were incredibly hairier is to experience spin of the ugliest sort.

If I were you or the myriad families that were "directly" involved I would be angry. As I am now even when only being "indirectly" involved. We thoughtful and corcerned Americans stand firmly with you and the families of all the directly concerned in your simple and reasonable quest for finality, closure and redemption from your psycological torture. We say to the Us government - let this be done.


Sincerely AA.


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(@mariecartier)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 11, 2001 11:51 pm  

Dear Fellow American,

I cannot thank you enough for your words of support. We rely so much on good people like you to remind us that people do care about the average person that lost their life on Sept 11th. The problem is there is no one out there speaking on our behalf. We want to change that and there is not much time. We have learned more information about the conditions of ground zero and find it difficult to even relay them on. Suffice it to say that the effort is not directed at recovering bodies and treating them with respect and dignity. We aren't firemen and we aren't the families of policemen and find it painful that we aren't treated as important. We've started a grassroots effort to get our voice out there and are greatly encouraged by the support we've received by other families also outraged. No communication has been made by the city to the families in an effort to report exactly what the city plans to do. The fact of the matter is -- they really don't want us to know. They don't want us to know that the city doesn't view ground zero as a hallowed place but instead, a construction site that needs to be scooped out as quickly as possible at whatever cost. This means people that once existed being hauled in massive clumps of dirt to Staten Island with some small chance that someone might find a body part in the midst of dump that goes into a landfill. We need help to stop this and represent only a handful of families.

thank you again for your words, but please pray that God shows us the way to be heard...my brother James,26 was the 6th youngest child of seven children. We are devastated that we lost him and are committed to bringing him to a proper burial. Though we know we may never find him, we still hope that our efforts will recover other loved ones still praying for something to bury.

our site is www.giveyourvoice.com

All the best,

Marie


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 jmkg
(@jmkg)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 12, 2001 5:04 am  

As Turkish citizens we share the sorrow of all the Americans who lost their relatives or friends on September 11th. All our prayers are for you and for the ones you have lost. As a whole country we keep on giving military support to US against the terrorists. But we are sorry that we can't do more than that. We are your friends forever.


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 god
(@god)
Active Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 11
November 19, 2001 10:04 am  

AAHHH,

How refreshing it is that our wonderfully superior military is teaching lessons to the anti-Americans domestically and abroad. The lesson simply stated, we (the real Americans, not you.. you know who you are) are the most powerful country in the history of the world. No country, or conglomeration of countries can or ever will defeat us.

Who was it that said we should fear the Afghan fighters? That they will fight until the very last man!!! HA HA HA HA!!!

The Liberal mainstream media, and you pathetic democrats are the ones who said it and don't worry, we Americans will never forget what side you are on!! PIGS!!!

The stinking Muslim Pigs run like rats from hole to hole as we exterminate them. Next we turn our cross hairs on Iraq, teach them the lessons of what happens when you worship a pagan idol. On to Sudan, and where ever the intelligence leads us.

Don't forget you enemies among us, our new powerful government has legal techniques to monitor your anti-American rhetoric, you are next.

Our visionary President George W. Bush has signed an order last week creating special military tribunals in which those charged with terrorism will be tried in secret, with juries of military officers. Swift and permanent justice. And why did he do this??


Left me educate your rotting skulls, for he knew the liberal court systems and juries full of pathetic anti-violence peace seekers would not have the intestinal fortitude to hand the appropriate sentence to the terrorist, DEATH!!!

Look at what happened in 1993 with the first bombing of the WTC, all 4 terrorists eat 3 warm meals, watch TV and have games and books as they serve life in prison. WE provide them a better life than they could ever get in their sick perverted countries. And why is this? The jury was afraid of retaliation. And what did we get for our decent, humane treatment???

You cannot treat animals like humans!! You must 2kill them like a soulless animal for that is how they live. They are good at killing woman and children; our special forces are obliterating, and decapitating the pigs that are left.

Wake up, you all live in an idealistic fantasyland. You are laughed and mocked by those of us who live in reality. Come join us, in the arena of life the honors and rewards fall to those who show their good qualities in action.

GOD


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(@fredledingue)
Honorable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 719
November 20, 2001 1:10 pm  

John Cauthen

Why 4.000 jews were missing in the WTC before the planes crashed in?

Because 10.000 regular workers were not at this times in the towers.
That 4 on 10.000 were jewish doesn't surprise me, especialy when you consider that these numbers may be exagerated.


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(@ilona)
Active Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 5
November 22, 2001 8:17 am  

to God,

I just want to ask you a question. Are you happy? Have you ever LOVED anyone?
Because I cannot immagine that someone so full of HATE is able to be happy and caring. Actually now I have a pity for you. It is not an easy job to hate everyone around, everyone who is somehow different from you. my god, you are so scared.
Compassion was right about many things. It is true that tolerance, patience, and understanding requires strenght and guts and courage. The courage to choose the hardest but better way. Of course it is much more easy to kill, to hate, not to think and don't care about anything.
You can be so arrogant as you wish - it doesn't harm anyone, but what about innocent children and women and olderly which are being killed right now in Afganistan? 3-4 years old kids without hands and legs due to "extremely precise" bombing? Red cross's buildings destroyed by bombs (whoa - that was precise). Doesn't it count? Of course, I forget - according to your opinion only americans have the right to live. Somehow I think the United Nations wouldn't agree with you.
While you are intending to kill everyone around, some people from all over the world (America, Asia, Africa, Australia etc) are working together.
Your can hate whoever you want but do not expect the kind attitude toward yourself. You are calling yourself God, but it seems that you didn't read the Bible. "The others treat us the way we are treating them".


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(@johncauthen)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 1
November 23, 2001 5:52 am  

I never mentioned the fact that Jews were missing from work. If that was so it is not a significant fact to me. I only said the collapse looked more like a building demolition.

I learned the CIA had an office there. If you want a significant fact, check and see how many high level CIA people were missing from work at the WTC.

In the Oklahoma attack, all the ATF agents were not at work that day. Only a receptionist was there. Timothy McVie was trained as a Ranger. He was "dead" for only four minutes before he was wisked away and "cremated". Lethal injection? Where is the proof? Have you ever seen La Fem Nikita? He could almost have held his breath for that long. Could they have possibly faked his execution?

After the bombing he got caught immediately, although many miles away and driving a different car. In concert with the ineffectual but loud blast on the street outside, they could have brought half of the building down with charges placed in the support beams. ATF agents were there during the night, but not during the day.

What sparked that theory is that a bomb exploded twenty feet outside a building in the open air can't do that much damage, and if it could, it would have done some damage to the building across the street, but it didn't break many windows. And the circumstancial evidence fit: the short sentence, and quick execution. Now, McVie is possibly doing other covert jobs for the US. McVie's most honest concern was for Terry Nichols who got life in prison for casually helping McVie commit a crime the government may have wanted McVie to commit.

They used the attack on the Murrow Office Building as an excuse to arrest 2000 paramilitary people in the US on insubstancial charges: the paramilitary's main crime is they care for the traditional values America was once built upon.

Anyway, the question now is how many high level CIA agents were missing from work that morning? The CIA had an office at the WTC.

The actual collapse of the World Trade Center looked like a building demolition to me. What does it look like to you when you look at the tape?


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(@boomba)
New Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4
November 23, 2001 3:06 pm  

To Ilona: god is a typical good ol boy southern bigot. I never expected less. Thankfully he does not represent most men in the US. His very small manhood is the reason he inflates his ego so much.


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