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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 25, 1999 2:19 pm  

A story of hope....


Chicago Tribune
June 23, 1999

SMALL CONVENT A REFUGE FOR ALL
ORTHODOX ABBESS HELPS SERBS AND ETHNIC ALBANIANS

By Ray Moseley, Tribune Foreign Correspondent.

ZVECAN, Yugoslavia

Serbs regard Kosovo as the cradle of their civilization and their Serbian
Orthodox religion, and the defense of both as a holy cause. It was a cause
that led to war, and for some members of religious orders these have been
difficult times.

Nuns have been raped, churches vandalized and members of religious orders
robbed by the Kosovo Liberation Army since the war ended.

But the Holy Mother Convent, high atop the Sokaliza mountain near here, is
an exception.

Mother Maharija, 58, the abbess, and her little collection of nuns say the
only trouble they have experienced in the last four months came just before
the war ended, when a NATO plane dropped a 2,000-pound bomb 500 feet from the
convent, causing some damage to the roof.

They think the bombing was an error, as there was no obvious military
target in an area that is predominantly Serb but was devoid of Yugoslav
troops at the time.

Otherwise, Mother Maharija said, the 12,500 Serbs and 300 ethnic Albanians
who live in three villages that creep up the mountain around the convent
co-exist in harmony. She said no local Serbs have fled since the war ended
and she knew of only two Albanian houses that had been burned during the war.

"Our nearest neighbors are Albanians," she said. "During the war, we
protected them, brought them medicine and took them to the hospital in
Kosovska Mitrovica."

She said she took a pregnant Albanian woman to the hospital to give birth,
and when she went to collect her later she found three new mothers with their
babies waiting for her along with a Serb doctor.

The doctor, she said, asked her to take the women to their homes so they
would be safe from any Yugoslav army or police incursions into the hospital.

"We are people of God, helping everyone in need," she said. "We have in
our little church a miraculous icon, a 14th Century statue of Mary and the
baby Jesus, and Albanians respect it very much.

"When Albanians are ill, they come here to pray. If you are in trouble,
sometimes Serbs go to a hodja (Muslim clergyman), and Albanians come here."

The 14th Century convent, which commands a sweeping view of the green
mountains and valleys stretching up to the Serbian border 10 miles away, is
inhabited at the moment only by Mother Maharija and two other nuns.

Others, she said, are in Belgrade, helping give examinations to students.

How many nuns live here? "War secret," she says, and grins mischievously.

The convent is a quiet, peaceful place, and a correspondent who arrives
finds even the convent's three dogs and two cats at peace. One of the cats is
licking a dog's face. "They love each other," says a nun who answers the door.

Mother Maharija, who has a doctorate in chemistry, had taught at Belgrade
University but opted for the religious life in her 40s.

She said the tranquility here contrasted with what happened at the Devic
convent 20 miles to the south near Srbica, in the heart of a region that saw
some of the heaviest fighting between Yugoslav forces and the Kosovo
Liberation Army.

At Devic, she said, the KLA came last week and took away the convent car,
a combine tractor, four other tractors and three generators. "They even took
the watches off the nuns' wrists and did a lot of damage in the church, but
they did not harm the sisters," she said. "Until French soldiers arrived, the
sisters did not eat for two days."

She said she had been stopped by KLA soldiers on the highway many times,
but "they did nothing to me."

She said the war has demonstrated that ethnic Albanians and Serbs must
learn to live together and respect each other.

"Kosovo is a very large country," she said. "There is a place for both of
us, and for Gypsies and others. Albanians can't push us out, and we can't
push them out. What happened here is nonsense. It is better to sit at a table
and talk rather than fight."

While some Serb members of religious orders support themselves by farming,
the nuns of Holy Mother Convent finance their activities by selling books
they illustrate and by painting icons.

Mother Maharija said they earn about $220 on average for each icon,
selling them all over Yugoslavia and in Greece.

"Working in the fields is not conducive to a life of prayer," she said.
"We are working first for God and then for money. We must have money to live."

Asked whether she trusted NATO to protect the convent, she said: "I think
God will protect us. Our Albanian neighbors will do for us as we did for
them. All Albanians are not bad, and all Serbs are not bad."

As she shows her visitors out, one of the convent cats is lying on top of
a convent dog, purring contentedly.

"You see, they love each other," she said. "If a cat and a dog can live
together, Albanians and Serbs can surely learn to live together."


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 25, 1999 2:30 pm  

So, guys. Here's something to chew on. Saddam praizing Milosevic......
Read it and weep!


BAGHDAD, June 23 (AFP) - Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has
praised the "courage" of Yugoslavia in the face of NATO airstrikes,
newspapers reported Wednesday.
"The people and leadership of Yugoslavia have shown courage," he
told members of the ruling Baath party. "They fought despite the
great hatred directed against them."
Saddam went on to criticise some Islamic states for their
position on Kosovo.
"Unfortunately, some Moslems have been deceived by the
Westerners who persuaded them that America, Zionism and their allies
were defending the Moslmes of Kosovo," he said. "In fact they
(Amercia) are responsible for the exodus of the Kosovars."
The media did not say when the president gave the speech.
The Baath party last week declared the Yugoslavs had triumphed.
Iraq, whose occupation forces were expelled from Kuwait by a
US-led coalition in the 1991 Gulf War but which still claimed
victory, sided with Belgrade throughout the NATO strikes from March
24-June 10.


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 jack
(@jack)
Active Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 18
June 25, 1999 2:33 pm  

MILOSOVNICK IS A PATHETNICK FASCISTNICK.


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(@L'menexe)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 616
June 25, 1999 7:06 pm  

(pronounced "luh-muh-NEX-uh"....)


well well well.


saddam and milosevic


what a team.


but y'know, i've been thinking zoja honey...


despite the mounting evidence of atrocities visited upon albanians by serves, monsieur h'niq seems so darned CONFIDENT that none of these things happened...well...maybe he's right.


no "ethnic cleansing".


and no holocaust in WWII.


and no one ever landed on the moon.


and the world is FLAT.


and PIGS...pigs FLY...oh, how they fly.


aint that right, h'niq?


did i leave anything out?


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(@L'menexe)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 616
June 25, 1999 7:12 pm  

darn.


for once DMS doesnt MANGLE my post and i spell "serbs" as "serves"


sorry.


must be time for dinner


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 pete
(@pete)
Eminent Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 41
June 25, 1999 9:59 pm  

To Guido

Sorry, pal, you're going to have to take him alive if you want that $5million. They're not paying for cadavers this time.


To Rico

Huh???


Odds 'N ends

Albanians attacking Serbs in Kosovo: You reap what you sow. It's an unchangeable law of God. Sow wheat, you will harvest wheat. Sow brambles, you'll grow brambles. Sow violence, you reap violence. Sad in this case, but it's true.

Only way I see that there will be any lasting peace in the Balkans is
(1) get rid of Slobo and his cronies. Leave him in and he'll just lay low til things cool down some, then it'll be right back to his old tricks again.
(2) all sides are going to have to lay down their arms and stop this continual cycle of revenge and retaliation. Violence only begets more violence, and it just keeps going around and no one benefits. It is going to take forgiveness.
Bottom line--When people let Jesus rule their lives (not just give him lip service) he changes them from the inside out, gives them a whole new nature. Not only does the revenge stop, the desire for revenge goes away too. This is the only real way to really lasting peace.

Russian grab on Pristina: CNN tonight said the Russian rush for Pristina airport was no happenstance. Russia had transports loaded and ready to bring in some 2000 more troops, and planned to grab off a sector of Kosovo for themselves. The only thing that stopped them was when Hungary and a couple of other nations denied them passage through their airspace.

Serb atrocities in Kosovo: Peacekeepers and forensic investigators have uncovered dozens of mass graves and evidence of tampering with some of them, whole villages burnt to the ground, some houses with dozens of bodies in them, shot and then burned, and testimony of those few who managed to escape corroborating the physical evidence. Also the evidence found fully supports the reports by refugees fleeing Kosovo during the purge.
Nick, do you still refuse to believe that all this happened and that your beloved Slobo was up to his eyeballs in it all? You still think all the people who died in Kosovo were killed by NATO bombs? If so I don't see much hope for you. Just go ahead and believe your lies if that's what you want.


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 ds
(@ds)
Eminent Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 45
June 26, 1999 12:12 am  

Pete,

Nick's brain is so full of Serb propaganda and dislike for NATO that he will never see the truth, just ignore his post.


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(@pkurdo)
Active Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 8
June 26, 1999 5:05 am  

Malice in Refugeeland

Article by Pedro Kurdo


Lines of cheering people along the streets of a city are usually associated with welcoming somebody the people love.
In the city of Prizren these lines were cheering the departure of people they hated.
The crowd officially, and unknowingly, moved the term "They love to hate" from linguistic to history books.

Mr Cohen, US secretary of War, delivered a long line of credible estimates concerning the scale of Serbian actions in Kosovo.
He started quite well - "At least 100,000 Albanian men of military age are missing, presumed dead…"
Then William's numbers coincidentally grew with the number of the Serbian civilians killed in bombardments - "…previous numbers may have been too conservative, we estimate up to 200,000…"
By the time opposition to the campaign reached its peak, William's imagination was in full swing - "…but we fear this number may be as high as 400,000…"

London bookies have already started taking bets on Cohen's next guess.

Massacre sites are everywhere, says ethnic-reconciliation minded media.
There are so many of them that over-stretched NATO forces are thinking of hiring KLA specialists to do a forensic job for them.
Now Mr Cohen's phenomenal numbers seem much more probable.

We saw graves of an alleged Serbian atrocity on CNN. They were neatly aligned and had a piece of wood with a tag on each of them. Weird massacre site.
Louise Arbour should ring these ruthless, bloodthirsty and exceptionally tidy paramilitaries and ask for associated paperwork. That would save NATO a few bucks.

In another of its classic reports, targeting the loyal British audience and children under eight elsewhere, a BBC reporter made a startling discovery - a box full of condoms.
For some simple minded newsmen, the highest birth-rate in the world recorded among the Kosovo Albanian population may sound like a clue, but the guy from the land of Sherlock Holmes won't be fooled so easily. There must be a more sinister side to it.
Conclusion: the nasty Serbian paramilitaries are not just well organised, but they are also health conscious. It is possible they may well be vegetarians, although it is only a speculation.

We are still eagerly and patiently waiting for the greatest news of all - discovery of the first victim of the indiscriminate aerial bombardments, or at least one casualty from the massive fighting between the Serb forces and the KLA.
But it looks like, they too have fallen victims of the massacres.

The Mother Theresas in camouflage uniforms can be sort of a nuisance.
Just recently, some elements of the French contingent caused a short disruption in the KLA's busy monastery-burning, nun-raping schedule.
NATO reassured concerned "freedom fighters" this was just an isolated incident.

Cigar Bill visited Macedonia trying to revitalise his all but dead credibility.
The times have changed.
Years ago, it took the President to appear on a street to get a lively response from the crowd.
These days, the commander in chief, and highly decorated bedroom commando, has to make a safari through a muddy refugee camp to achieve the same effect.

Clinton was always concerned with his legacy and place in history.
There could be good news for the President - a man with the name of Walter Rockler is willing to help.

Mr Rockler's CV tells us that he stored famous personalities, like Goering, Ribbentrop, Kaltenbrunner and friends, in a place they belonged.
The same gentleman reckons that Bill, Madeleine, Wesley and co. have all prerequisites required for joining this famous bunch.
This offer, says well-known Nazi buster, also applies for Clinton's British clones.

Yes, "Clinton's British clones" was exactly what he said.
Did Mr Rockler suggest that Mr Cook, Mr Robertson and Dolly the sheep originate from the same genetic engineering facility?
If true, that disputes the claims of some Scottish scientists of Dolly's above average intelligence.

Let's not forget some more affluent victims of the Kosovo conflict.
These numerous refugees from the worlds of reason, accountability and objectivity.
No need for you to send any kind of relief. They've been taken good care of by the major networks.

And the last words go in memory of another forgotten casualty of this senseless war.

Born in France, educated in US, considered Albanian for his mother tongue.
He was orphaned on birth, and brought up by his ugly stepmother.
As he grew up in secrecy, he made no real friends. Unable to gain acceptance later in his short life, he felt unwanted and rejected.
All of a sudden, his health deteriorated. He started suffering from appendix related problems, so a decision was made to fix it by a number of surgical air strikes, that later turned into a major operation.
He died, alone and forgotten after 78 days of agony, from postoperative complications.

Rest in shaky peace, Mr Rambouillet!

Pedro Kurdo is the business correspondent for the Internet Express News.
Copyright © 1999


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 26, 1999 5:20 am  

To D-S, Pete and 'l emenexe (uh)

Propaganda can be a powerful tool, especially when wielded in countries with a dictatorial regime. But really, who cares if h'niq or who ever living in more free countries believes the truth or not? If you have a choice and you choose to believe the propaganda, then your brain just melted, and you should check yourself in to the local loony bin. I see victims of a so called non existing genocide every day, in real life, so there is no discussion on that subject for me.

To Pete
About religion, I think you are right about people being less tempted to revenge and rage if they do have a strong faith, but I also believe many atrocities have been committed using religion as a revenge tool. Being used in the face of people's ignorance toward each others habits and life styles.

So, my view is that the first thing to do would be to get to know each other and learn to respect each other. In that way you can use Jesus as a good ecample of someone who was not driven by bias or revenge, but by love for all the people in the world.

In that way, I think the Orthodox church has been a good example, these days. They said all along that it must be possible for everyone, Serbs and Albanians to live together. Monastaries were refuge to Serbs and Albanians, also Muslim Albanians, before, during and after the war. 'Our' Cybermonk was on the internet all along trying to show the rest of the world there was some sanity in the craziness after all. At least that sound encouraging, I think.

Zoja


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 26, 1999 5:28 am  

To Guido.

Take your guns anyway, even if your want to bring these wankers to The Hague alive and not as cadavers (cadavers, Pete, very fitting word indeed :-)))! Just give them a looong haaaard look into that barrel and keep it pointed at them while yous make the passage. At least it will keep them in check until the big boys come to take the burden off your shoulder.

A good, fierce and huge guard dog or two might help as well, and maybe a couple of pounds of explosives. I am sure Slob is still sitting in his bunker, to scared to get out.

We will prepare his reception in The Hague, ok?

Zoja


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 26, 1999 5:49 am  

Church admits truth about atrocities

War crimes: Priests defy state to end denial

Rory Carroll in Belgrade
Friday June 25, 1999
The Guardian

Serbia's wall of denial surrounding war crimes in Kosovo is about
to be smashed by the Serbian Orthodox church, which plans to tell
its flock that the nation's soul is stained with the blood of ethnic Albanians.

Church leaders will return from the province to Belgrade and defy
the Yugoslav president, Slobodan Milosevic, by publicly admitting
that Serb forces committed widespread atrocities.

The news came as Mr Milosevic faced a fresh challenge to his embattled
regime from growing protests by thousands of army reservists

Since arriving in Kosovo last week, the head of the church, Patriarch
Pavle, has been shocked by evidence of murders, tortures and expulsions.
He and his bishops have decided to break the silence by declaring some of
their countrymen guilty of horrific crimes.

Luka Novakovic, deacon at the church's library in Belgrade, said
the church hierarchy would make an announcement at a press conference
in the Yugoslav capital next week, regardless of government threats. The speakers
were likely to be the archbishop of Crna Gora and Primorje and the
bishop of Raska and Prizren, in Kosovo.

"At our services on Sunday [July 4] our priests will be able to
tell the people about what happened in Kosovo," the deacon said.
"We have learned that some Serbs did terrible things in Kosovo,
and admitting that is the first
step in changing things for the better.

"It will not be possible to keep it a secret, not any more. Society
will know about it... It is our duty. It is important for a country
to know the truth. It has to know, otherwise it will just continue on without confessing.
Denying it is not going to save souls."

Even if the state media ignore the announcement, the message is
expected to spread, since the church is one of the few institutions
able to communicate directly with the people. Virtually every Serb belongs to the
Orthodox faith and about half are said to attend church regularly.
The church has already angered Mr Milosevic by calling for his resignation.

Protests by army reservists demanding war pay for their time in
Kosovo spread through central Serbia yesterday. In the latest incident
it was reported that about 2,000 reservists had used tanks to blockade bridges and
bring traffic to a halt on the road between Kraljevo and Krusevac.

On Wednesday reservists from the town of Trstenik demonstrated and
threw empty beer bottles at officers. They blockaded the road for
five hours and said the monthly pay for service in Kosovo was not enough.

Meanwhile, the Yugoslav federal and Serb parliaments in Belgrade
have voted to lift the state of war, ending curfew and travel restrictions
imposed after Nato started bombing.

Restrictions on public demonstrations were lifted, leaving opposition
parties free to mobilise against the regime and push for early elections.
The Alliance for Change, an umbrella group of 30 parties, says it will hold two
rallies tomorrow in central Serbia.


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(@L'menexe)
Honorable Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 616
June 26, 1999 4:19 pm  

bravo, zoja, bravo!


or, in the vernacular,


DAMNED STRAIGHT!


growl your way out of THIS one, h'niq, you lousy PUKE!


you are TOAST.


and soon, so is MILOSEVIC.


DAMNED STRAIGHT!


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(@kissie)
Estimable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 237
June 26, 1999 9:06 pm  

It seems to me, that US officials (Clinton including) were and are engaged in pi---ng contest over who says the BSest BS. Louis Freeh (FBI) dared to call Kosovo "the largest crime scene" (IBA News as of 15:00). Je-es, where was that BS "law upholder" and his bunch of bunglers, when that real slaughter was going on in Africa, for just one instance? There were shots of a river choked on corpses, right?
It was real treat to see (exactly as suspected) the
inflatable decoy heavy Serb tank and bridges on SKY. What was that percentage, bravely, he-he, "destroyed" by W. Clark's tongue and "confirmed" by that of J. Shea? 40%? 50%? Russian TV and DOD are having a field day. Especially, when the decoys are Russian-made. LOL. It (and not only this) explains now a tricky expression in Mr. Sergyeew's eyes after a return of the Russian inspection team during the bombing. Nice NATO war against TV studios, hospitals, refugee
columns, gynecological clinics, bridges, an occasional embassy ... and inflatable rubber tanks. Just think of a one million $ return flight of one B52 to bomb rubber decoys.
P.S. BTH, Norman Schwartzkoph said, that wars are won on the ground by infantry and tanks, not by spec ops and air.
P.S.S. A Serbian family has been shot in the Pristina university and then mashed with hammer-like objects.
P.S.S.S.S. Hashim Tachi... The Interpol arrest warrant still outstanding ... , mingling with NATO leaders... . Buddies in crime.
P.S.S.S.S.S. THREE billion $ of the European money within 3 years to physically restore Kosovo. Why not, who destroyed - pays.


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 27, 1999 5:43 am  

To Kissie

The fact that similar wars in Africa,r where ever else in the world were not intervened by Nato and this one is, does not make Kosovo any better or worse. And if you care to read the news about the investigation of all the massacre and torture sites it IS one of the world's biggest crime scenes.

And about politics, that's just the same story as always, meaning that politics is usually about keeping the powerful powerful. So, the 'leaders' usually do what looks good for them, and/or when it is to close to home to ignore.

Look at China. Ten years ago there was a world wide outcry when students were massacred on Tien A Min Square, only because they had an opinion. Americas president spoke some pretty harsh words and sanctions were imposed.

Today, ten years later, the situation in China did not improve at all, espcially not if you look at human rights issues, but the US is licking their arses just the same. Only because they see a huge potential economic market in China, where they love to get their hands on, they suck up to China. It would not have happened otherwise.

Bosnia also. Bosnia was not economically or in whatever other way important, so, thousands and thousands of people had to get slaughtered first, most of my family included, before the international community finally did something. And when they did, it was halfheartedly. Just like now in Kosova, with huge life losses and ecological diasters as consequence. The only reason some action was taken in Kosova was, because the powerhungry finally understood that Slob Milo and his gang were a threat to (the stabilitiy of) the whole of Europe

They still are, and they will keep on going, unless somebody does something drastic to stop them. So, in spite of my heavy criticism on the way things are handled by Nato and the US, and in spite of the fact that I realise for the political leaders it has nothing to do with morale, only with their own power and glory, I am glad the attention of the world is finally focussed on the three Hitlers in Europe, Milosevic, Karadic and Mladic.

I really would like for families to also get the chance to at least bury their loved ones in dignity.

Zoja


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 zoja
(@zoja)
Reputable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 369
June 27, 1999 5:58 am  

To Pedro Kurdo.

In some aspects you are very right in your criticism. Cigar Clinton wants to be in the history books, and he will stop at nothing to achieve that.

The UCK is nothing worse or better thatn the ANC or the IRA. And Nato forces make just as many mistakes as, for instance UCK.

I wrote in the post messages section politics is about power, and power only.

But, I really think, dispite of ridiculous guessing by Clark, you go to far in suggesting lots of massacre sites would be fabricated. It is a dangerous point of view, also held by Neo Nazis on the events in the second World War.

I am sure you would not want to be classified in the same line, I am sure. I see that from your posting all right. But, having said that, what promps you to have such an opinion? Are you IN Kosova? Are you in Montenegro? Were you in Bosnia during the war? Do you have deep throats in these areas????

Who are YOU and HOW do you form your opinion?

Zoja


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