I am suggesting you do nothing to remove him. I suggest you mind your own bussines. You can't even remove your own president. Your country is also harassing it's citizens and we don't see anybody interfiering. And there would be even more citizens you would harass if only poor Indians would still be alive. And black people, not so long ago they had less rights than Kosovo Albanians do. Even though there are only 10 % of them in America more than half exectuted with death penalty are black people. And we all know 1/6 of executed are innocent.
If you want justice and human rights start at home. You will have so much work to do you won't be borthering as for few decades.

Since when did dropping bombs on any people, stop their leaders from persecuting others? This war in Yugoslavia is yet another case, of innocent men, women and children suffering, and dying, for a useless cause. It is all about Power!

Milosevic is abusing his power to drive people from their homes, and so along comes Clinton the peace maker, with his bombs to kill off the citizens of Milosevic's country. When will all the killing stop? When people stop hating each other. Stop these power mad bullies, Milosevic and Clinton.

It is up to the West to refuse to back up Clinton's crazed attempts to take the eyes of the world off his sexual deviances by Bombing nations of innocent people, he did it in Africa and now he is doing it in Europe. This hatred is spilling out of Yugoslavia to the rest of the world, violence only begets more violence.
Where will it stop? World War III?

A weapon is not a peacemaker, any more than rat poison is food. So complain loudly if necessary, but please stop the violence!

Tell Clinton to go home, and look after his wife and daughter, instead of looking for someone to beat up. Peace NOW!!!

Frances

To Smout: I agree, the feelings of hatred are sometimes strong here, but underneath I can also sense the deep frustration and feelings of being powerless to stop the bombs. Those who wield them have the money and thus the power to spread destruction, while we (meaning all the concerned and distressed people using the Internet as a way of communicating with other people) can only speak our hearts. In an equitable world, every voice here would have value, but I think we're all aware of the huge forces we're arrayed against.

Maya -- your anger touches me, since you come from a place, and with a knowledge of history, much different from my position in the U.S. I've learned more here from you, and from others with their unique perspectives, than I ever could by any media. We are human beings first, citizens of nations after that.

I know at least some independent journalists have been reaching out to individuals for reports of events inside the affected areas, to remind their readers or viewers that war, after all, is a disaster that destroys individual human lives. I'm a writer and editor living in the US and very much would like to do my part to ensure that people of the world, even those without the Internet, can have access to the real stories (including all the conflicting accounts) in hopes that we may discover a capacity inside ourselves for paradox and contradiction, all the very real messiness of life instead of the good guy/bad guy mentality we've clung to for centuries. Eventually, this "war," like all "wars," will be nothing more than a footnote in some learned professor's fat text on late 20th-century politics. Who knows? If the war gets big enough, maybe it will inspire books and movies of its own, it's own "Schindler's List" and "Private Ryan" with scud-missile special effects and Tom Hanks playing the pilot of the downed F117. Not to rag on Spielberg, because any number of movie directors and/or writers could spin this war however they like, however their corporate sponsors choose to play it out in an endless "marketplace."

And so again, I repeat my challenge from last night. It was vague; I was nervous. I'll be a bit more direct now, if I can. Those of us with the capability to create viruses (like Monday's big "melissa" virus in email) and/or break our way into air defense systems and banks just to check them out, just to show we can do it, might also think about coming together to discuss creating positive, nondestructive ways to stop these horrors of war. We can use the Internet to act as well as to express ourselves. We have, amongst us, people with technological expertise, as distressed by the killing as anyone, who may choose at some point to put their technological talents to good use. Do you think we could actually turn swords into plowshares, or water into wine? Forgive the poetic imagery, but I hope the inspiration and the challenge to take action is clear.

I know what's going on breaks my heart, that I'd do anything to feel I could put a stop to the suffering I'm seeing in so many faces over the past days and weeks: Serbs, Albanians, crowds gathering outside embassies, no one seems exempt, and no one's suffering seems less real than anyone else's.

Nancy
maitri@pacbell.net

Maja said:

I am suggesting you do nothing to remove him. I suggest you mind your own bussines. You can't even remove your own president.

A swede replied:

Well, Clinton is not exactly *my* president, since i *really* am a swede. In the choice between an american president/state and a serbian one, i would prefer an american just now.

But in opposite to you i want the international community to interfer some way, in order to remove murderous dictators (whatever their way to come to power). I admit that NATO is not the right instance, UN would be, but they aren't doing any effective at all, so NATO have to suffice. Also i admit that NATO isn't exactly doing the right thing, but my feelings are so hot against stronger (serbs) harassing weaker (Kosova albanian serbian citizens), so you wouldn't like what i want NATO or UN to do. Somehow my feelings will grow colder, but i will *not* forget!

Maja continued:

Your country is also harassing it's citizens and we don't see anybody interfiering.

Aswede replied:

First: what USA (or Sweden) *did*, doesn't justify anybody to do the same. Can't you sense what's right and what's wrong? Have you imagined being a Kosovan Albanian Serbian Citizen during the time when they couldn't get an education because the Serbs hindered them? (That doesn't justify very much what the Kosovan Separatists are doing, but have ever Serbs and Albanians imagined each others situation?)

Secondly: what USA does today for its minorities is far better than what Serbia does: USA are giving back some land to their Indians. Sweden did some wrong times ago too, the Sami (Lapponian) people wasn't that well treated in te 17th century, but today their situation is far better, and they are protected by law. Does Serbia protect its minorities by law?

Maja continued:

And there would be even more citizens you would harass if only poor Indians would still be alive. And black people, not so long ago they had less
rights than Kosovo Albanians do. Even though there are only 10 % of them in America more than half exectuted with death penalty are black people. And we all know 1/6 of executed are innocent.
If you want justice and human rights start at home. You will have so much work to do you won't be borthering as for few decades.

Aswede again:

As i said before: that doesn't justify bad treatment of Kosova albanians.

To Nancy: Very well put. It goes to show that there are ways of doing things in this world. As the scripture in the bible says: "Let he who hath eyes - see - and he who hath ears - hear." (2 Tim 3) Thank God for the media and the internet.

To Aswede: I have really enjoyed what you and Nancy have related to all of us. It's for sure the United States is not perfect, but I can't think of anywhere else I would want to live. I've been to different countries, some good some not=so good. But like I said before "Someone has to achieve order someway, somehow, or we are all looking at the end. I've got grandchildren and I want them to learn right from wrong,this is a bad situation to try and explain who's the good guy and whose the bad guy. All I know is that for killing THERE IS A PRICE !! Grant/Michigan USA
GFitzpatrick@webtv.net

Speaking of media monopoly, this is what NATO does not want you to know:

3am, Sunday 29th March 1999:

2 NATO aircrafts shot down near Sombor and Gornji Milanovac (check your maps)

2.10am, Sunday 29th March 1999:

NATO helicopter shot down, with 12 special forces soldiers on board, in Majevica mountain.

And the war based on the most humongous lies continues...

I 've just read everybody's opinion. Can anyone tell me why the US and NATO are not acting in the same way in Turkey as in Yugoslavia and I am refering to the subject of the Kurds who are a nation of 18 millions in Turkey, 12 millions in Irak and 8 millions over the entire world? We are talking about a nation of nearly 40 millions. The same goes for Cyprus for the past 25 years. Why don't they give a solution to that problem?
I would like you to let me know if I am wrong.Is Yugoslavia an exception to what I have mentioned above and why? I think the US like to have many regions all around the world in a state of conflict where they could be easily selling their weapons and furthermore in the case of Yugoslavia to show to the European Union that they are not in a position to form a real nation which is going to be in a few years a real threat for them....... Am I wrong again?
Please give me your answer to my e-mail: harish@hol.gr
My name is Haris the Greek.
Greece + Yugoslavia = Eternal Friends
Thank you!

"A Swede",

This site needs many more Maja for discussion purposes. Unlike you, she has been posting intelligent articles for quite a while, each containing relevant facts, never reporting unconfirmed information.

You can stick to what they fed you "Serbs are monsters", "Milosevic is another Hitler" and plant war thoughts in people's mind. Continue to believe what you want to believe, after all it comes from the NATO Press so it has got to be true, right ? After all, these people have only broken four international laws, denied their own charter, pretended to help for humanitarian reasons: you seriously believe that ? Wake up and smell the coffee, idealistic parrot of the Western press. Try not being so naive and ask yourself why NATO only reported one plane shot down, and that it took 9 hours to confirm it ? Ask yourself why the only reports about "genocides" come from Albanian Kosovars, exactly those who would do ANYTHING to appropriate themselves Kosovo.

Harish asked:

I 've just read everybody's opinion. Can anyone tell me why the US and NATO are not acting in the same way in Turkey as in Yugoslavia and I am refering to the subject of the Kurds who are a nation of 18 millions in Turkey, 12 millions in Irak and 8 millions over the entire world?

Aswede tried to answer:

Morally: no.

Politically: yes, Turkey trades a lot and is member of NATO. Serbia doesn't/isn't.

Harish again:

We are talking about a nation of nearly 40 millions. The same goes for Cyprus for the past 25 years. Why don't they give a solution to that problem?

Aswede tried to answer (however ineffectively):

Someone tries to do something: The European Union (a rather ineffective political organization) tries to do something: they are trying to pressure Turkey to first admit that Kurds exist, secondly to treat them equally as the Turks. The Turks don't however listen. Turkeys bad attitude is a very great problem for Europe.

I admit the double moral, i don't want to justify NATO for this, neither Europe who are acting too weak. I'm very angry with Turkey too, but i think it is better to catch one villain rather than none. However i don't propose war with Turkey. I don't like wars, but the political pressure must be more delicately when chance still is. Bribe them with better trade, do whatever...

Nick said:

"A Swede",

This site needs many more Maja for discussion purposes. Unlike you, she has been posting intelligent articles for quite a while, each containing relevant facts, never reporting unconfirmed information.

Aswede:

Thank You!! (Hehe). OK, i understand. I will take it easier.

Nick again:

You can stick to what they fed you "Serbs are monsters", "Milosevic is another Hitler" and
plant war thoughts in people's mind.

Aswede:

I'm honestly sorry! I don't want to plant wars in folks heads. I'm just very morally indignated. If You wish her side to come to voice i will take it easier, and not be so categorical.

Nick again:

Continue to believe what you want to believe, after all it comes from the NATO Press so it has got to be true, right?

Aswede:

Please don't understate my own capacity of thinking. I just want to relate the view of a "renegade communist" (me).

Nick:

After all, these people have only broken four international laws, denied their own charter,
pretended to help for humanitarian reasons: you seriously believe that ? Wake up and smell the coffee, idealistic parrot of the Western press.

Aswede:

Only four? How gravely? I'm not a parrot - i'm an indignated former communist thinking that the serb nationalists are the latest ones to have traitored the communism. Furthermore: a system that is "traitored" that much have to be wrong, otherwise it wouldn't have been that easy to "traitor" it.

Nick:

Try not being so naive and ask yourself why NATO only reported one plane shot down, and that it took 9 hours to confirm it ? Ask yourself why the only reports about "genocides" come from Albanian
Kosovars, exactly those who would do ANYTHING to appropriate themselves Kosovo.

Aswede:

International sources (human rights organizations) investigating the atrocities in Bosnia and Croatia found that the serbs was responsible for five times the number of massacres compared to the other parts. Do you rationalize yourself into believing in an international conspiracy? (In return of Your calling me a "parrot") Well, you certainly have to be a little critical to your own belief, too.

To Nick: what is your source for this information? (about the downed NATO jets) I don't doubt you, but would like to know. Quite frankly, it's getting so I look at all major news sources, no matter the country, with a questioning eye. It's been awhile since I've seen any direct postings here from people inside the affected areas...

If you're out there, please post your experiences so that we may have some idea of what you are going through. Post here, at other sites, wherever you can. I'm thinking seriously of compiling first-hand accounts, no matter whose side you are on, to publish as a pamphlet to distribute to the many people who do not have Internet access. I will be glad to change or not use names at all, and I am not affiliated with ANY organization. I will also be happy to provide information about myself--my resume, references, you name it. My e-mail address is below.

The voices of real people may yet turn the tide. Many earlier crises that people have mentioned here, as well as some that are onoing throughout the world, have not provided, for the participants (a sad word choice, sorry) the same electronic access that seems to have solidified, in this case, within just a few days. Maybe, if the Internet had been used in other situations, some terrible things may have been prevented from happening.

So...please keep the world informed.

Nancy
maitri@pacbell.net

I just finish to watch an apparent very fair
video about the war against Sadam Hussein. I
listen, i think, a lot of interresting facts about
it. At the moment i nead to be shure i am right
to support the coalition against M. Milosevic,
it seems to me usefull to remember the hope first,
and the tears second of the iraky people who
rebell against the Bagdad power : they where
terrified when the usa president said he dont want
to pay the price of the victory. He dont want to
pay, staing in irak, the social, medical, material
cost of the war for the iraki people. Later, he
decide to do nothing for the kurdes who were
flleeing across the north mountains. Then he
thought that what the situation is perhaps a
possibly marsland, but shurely will become a
political defeat. At this time he undersant that
he have to win aginst his own people if he dont
have any international mandate from UN. And all
what he had was a resolution asking the coalition
to free kowaït. Not to stay in Irak. Now Wall
streeat put a lot of monay on one shots and they
want to get back a bigger lot of monnay in a short
time.

I think perhaps some of you dont understand what i
want to say. My english is too bad and i beg your
pardon for this. But its seems to me that the "
why usa flight against yougosavia people is a
false question. Beacause nobody can claim
whithout contradictors that it is usa and not west
europeen country who want what’s happening now.

Perhaps the question is only " who do what " in
yougoslavia now ? Allied forces bombs . OK. I
know. They lost a plane. Ok i know. More ?
Possibly, i dont know. Why most oft he kosovo
population leave they houses (i dont speak about
soil !). ? is a part of them, and what part of
them burn their own houses with the burn earth
policy ? How many per cents ? and about this ones
: what frigtened them at this point ?

I want to say something to the serb population :
in 1949 the General Assembly of the United Nation
vote the Universal Bill of human rights. And by
this, not only the states, but everybody, have to
respect this fondamental law : any human being get
by himself the right to live.

Near of the end of the video i saw tonight, a kurd
woman full of tears try to say in a despered way
to the journalist : Why the us troops didnt move
when they saw the sadam soldier kill them All the
men above 15 years old, possily weapon carrier. Se
said : i dont understand why you didnt move : you
are human being like us. Why didnt you move ? i
think specialy to the kosovar people now.

To the serb people on chat : the west europeen
country will never agree a long time occupation
in yougoslavia if the most part of the
yougoslavian people dont want it. Be shure of
that. But, please explain to us what is happenig
now on the groung of kosovo ?

Thanks. I can’t pray. It’s not my mind now. But we
have to understand ourselves in a short time. For
the safety o

DEAR Aswede,

what you just wrote speaks volumes about US
and other NATO countries politics:
"BRIBE THEM WITH BETTER TRADE, DO WHATEVER..."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I'd like to remind you that Milosevic
is not your problem,it's the americans' and the
NATO's. That's why it takes them to lie so passionately to justify their dirty work. What happened in former Yugoslavia is just what you have said. Bribe.Done WHATEVER.

They bribed petty little nationalist governments, gave them some strange independence and borders, and while arming them for the civil war, gave them the idea about creating an atmosphere for it. Scare minorities with a new constitution, pump up the rest on nationalistic ideas (that wasn't difficult: Tudjman from Croatia, Azetbegovic from Bosnia already served their sentence in jail as nationalists under Tito's governing). Following a few incidents, the ignition started, Yugoslavia was ready to explode. Now it's time to shred what is left of Serbia but hey, they STILL can't bribe Milosevic. So he is the guilty one.

The propaganda is still on. Think about the proportions, 19 countries against one. All the money, power and media war.

NOTICE HOW THE PROPAGANDA MACHINERY HAS INTENSIFIED.

One positive aspect of this mess may be that a few people who have had their lives destroyed by Klinton's mindless acts might decide to assassinate Bubba. It's rather sad when a US citizen desires to see the president's grey matter, however small the amount, splattered on his mistress's dress, but like to New Years eve, family gatherings and toast that comes out perfectly cripsy, it's a great reason to drink. I wanted to work bestiality and "Buddy" into this post as well, but it's good enough as it is.