L'menexe, was going to be nice today, but decided to have pms for the third time this month. Was it you that said "men reduce strong women to their composite body parts"??????? Shame on you!
As to the rest of your post!Did you learn Mimbari,too?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mask - private board, yes sure, but the board administrator long since gave up reading it, unless someone from here draws his attention to us. Then I think he accomodates whoever to make it all go away again? Mr Sligar?
Or maybe its that we all break the rules and he can't ban us all.- which would bring us back to the same old problem, if I could be arsed to go through it all again.
Mr Sligar, ban us all, and start again!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Igor, perhaps the Latvians are being evenhanded and going after criminals on both sides~!!! I thought that was what you suggested they do previously. BTW don't soviet style communists still hold protests in Russia- does that mean the majority of the population back them?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Q.If Chechnya was able to establish their independence, would they as an autonomous nation be able to survive in the current economic world?

Q.What is your opinion of the situation in Chechnya? What should the international community's role be?

Final Essay to follow!!! Then I really have a life to be getting on with.
Have a wonderful day!

How hate begets hate, or where Antonio was coming from....

Armenia remembered

Martin Woollacott
Friday May 19, 2000
The Guardian

The Armenian-American writer William Saroyan has a character in one of his plays say: "The world is amok. . . Life is
on fire; caught in hurricanes; submerged in deep and blind waters . . ." Armenians see themselves as a people who were
almost destroyed but whose plight was never fully acknowledged. They thus look on the horrors of the 20th century in a
way both tearful and ironic, for the worst of those horrors may be said to have begun with them - but sometimes it
seems as if only they are aware of that fact.

On the 85th anniversary of the massacres, change may finally be in prospect. That change springs above all from an
extraordinary effort among Armenians to rescue and deepen their own national memory of these events, in which the
Armenian communities of eastern Turkey vanished, most of them killed, the rest expelled. The remnant which escaped to
other lands or survived under Soviet rule was too insecure to campaign in a systematic way for justice, if such a
thing had been available in a world on its way to new upheavals, or even to tell their own children in any detail
about what had happened. A second generation, in Europe and especially the United States, was above all concerned to
be accepted and to achieve some degree of prosperity. The third generation, growing up at a time when difference is no
longer a problem but a matter to be celebrated, has rediscovered the Armenian past and wants other peoples to
rediscover it as well. Such rediscovery is not new - the writer Michael Arlen described it 20 years ago - but it has a
different quality as the new century opens. There is an urgency about the effort to record what the last survivors of
the killings know, and to vindicate them, among men and women who may have lost their language and other elements of
their Armenian heritage but have not lost, and may even feel more strongly, a duty to ensure that the truth of what
happened is more widely recognised.

The shifting balance between the post-1915 generations is beautifully captured in Black Dog of Fate, a family memoir
by the American poet Peter Balakian. The intense tenderness of his grandmother and the constrained discipline of his
doctor father were in different ways both reactions to the near death of a nation. His own journey of self-discovery
begins with him as a young American often irritated by family tradition and ends with his attempt to live through the
horrors suffered by the generation of his grandparents and to "become" an Armenian in a way that he had not been
before. He describes sneaking time off from his vacation job as a courier to read Henry Morgenthau's account of his
service in Turkey as American ambassador. There is something about this picture of a 20-year-old in a dusty corner of
a New York office, turning the pages of Morgenthau while distractedly sucking air out of an empty carton of Tropicana
orange juice that very effectively evokes the project of moral archaeology that engages many young Armenians. When the
young Balakian gets to the passage where Morgenthau describes how Talaat Pasha, perhaps the worst enemy the Armenians
had, says to him: "You are a Jew; these people are Christians. Why can't you let us do with these Christians as we
please?" he is so oblivious he forgets an important package he was supposed to collect and almost gets sacked.

There was a time, 20 years ago, when Armenian militants killed Turkish diplomats and bombed Turkish targets. The
objective today is not to take revenge on Turks but rather to turn them toward a fundamental revision of their idea of
their own past.

Scholars such as Professor Richard Hovannisian note that there were Turkish officials and clergy who opposed the
killings, and others who felt remorse and regret. This better record has been suppressed along with the rest. The
denial of the facts came somewhat later, at a moment when a resurgent Turkey was reaching settlements with western
states and it was convenient for both sides to forget the Armenians, and continues to this day. It is not only a
denial of a crime but also a denial of the multi- ethnic nature of the Anatolia which was modern Turkey's inheritance
from the Ottoman Empire. That denial has been equally evident in Turkey's refusal to give the Kurds any serious form
of autonomy, and even to deny them, for some years, their very name. A few courageous Turkish scholars are finally
beginning to open up these issues, and even to meet with Armenian academics.

Whether what occurred was genocide is at the heart of these discussions. The evidence gathered by Armenian scholars
strongly suggests there was such a plan, albeit one put together by men whose power was in part informal and who
strove to keep it secret. The opposite argument - that this was a deportation which went wrong because of the
pressures of war - is quite unconvincing. The end was, indisputably, extinction. In his film Voices from the Lake,
about of what became of the Armenians of Kharpert in eastern Turkey, Michael Hagopian shows the mulberry trees that
surround Lake Golcuk, now called Lake Hazar. In this beautiful place thousands of Armenians were butchered, men,
women, and children, in just one example of what happened to Armenians all over a region in which they had lived for
centuries before Turks arrived. "Within the lifetime of one mulberry leaf," Hagopian says, "a community had vanished."

If there is one people other than the Turks with whom Armenians are concerned it is the Jews, from whom they have
expected, but not always received, sympathy and support. The emphasis on the uniqueness of the Holocaust was partly a
response to the misleading argument that, terrible though the fate of the Jews was, it can somehow be subsumed into
the general monstrousness of the 20th century. The more nuanced position is that all genocides are unique but there
are certain hideous similiarities. Now some senior figures have broken ranks with the policy of discretion which
Israel has usually pursued because of its need for good relations with Turkey. The education minister, Yossi Sarid,
marked the anniversary of the killings last month by pledging to include the Armenian genocide in the curriculum. He
was immediately backed by Yossi Beilin, the justice minister, and by some Israeli newspapers. Signals of Turkish
displeasure followed.

The Holocaust Exhibition which opens next month at the Imperial War Museum is just one example of the way in which
awareness of the genocide of European Jewry has spread. It was the nadir of a dark century. Yet the Armenian genocide
which prefigured it, as Hitler himself recognised, receives only intermittent attention. As the last survivors of the
killings of 1915 reach the end of their lives, Hagopian's "Voices from the Lake" deserve to be heard.

* Black Dog of Fate by Peter Balakian, Harper Collins

[email protected]

© Copyright Guardian Media Group plc. 2000

A Tale of Two Republics
2253 GMT, 000714

Already into heavy summer demand, both Azerbaijan and Kazakstan are facing the possibility
of domestic energy shortages. While both countries have abundant and untapped natural
resources, the countries lack the infrastructure to achieve their goals of independence and
financial success in the energy market. Russia will play an increasingly important role as
these countries attempt to define their future political and economic goals.

Kazakstan faces a serious energy crisis. The country operates on three separate power
grids. Therefore, while electrical production country-wide meets domestic demand, some
regions are forced to import power due to localized shortages. The Kazaks are attempting to
link these grids together, but have proceeded slowly due to antiquated transmission
equipment, which accounts for as much as a 40 percent loss system wide. Additionally,
Kazakstan faces a major production shortage of natural gas. Currently, Kazakstan depends
upon Russian giant Gazprom, which along with Kyrgyzstan, supplies 10 percent of the
country?s natural gas.



In response to the energy shortage, the Kazak government announced that it would
temporarily suspend the excise tax on imported gasoline and diesel fuel. The government
also banned the export of diesel fuel until October 1. The suspension of the excise tax was
intended to increase the amount of fuel available for domestic consumption and to alleviate
ongoing power shortages in some regions of the country.

Major energy difficulties also plague Azerbaijan. Yearly electrical output lags slightly
behind demand; consumption of natural gas is double that of production. Due to seasonal
spikes in energy usage and the lack of reserve generating capacity, Azerbaijan is forced to
import additional power through Dagestan, Iran, Georgia and Turkey. In addition, oil
production far outweighs domestic consumption, but much of the oil produced domestically is
earmarked for export.

These energy shortages prompted SOCAR, the Azerbaijani state oil company, to announce that
it would halt oil shipments to Russian pipeline company Transneft. Interfax quoted a SOCAR
official on July 4 who said that the company would soon announce its intent to halt all
exports on the Baku-Novorrosiysk pipeline, because it had determined the company could not
ship enough oil to fulfill the contract. The official said the company would face Russian
sanctions but that the decision would reduce the risk of power shortages during peak
months.

Moscow responded as expected to the SOCAR decision. Semyon Vainshtok, director of
Transneft, announced July 3 that Russia would impose a $29 million contractual fine against
SOCAR, because it failed to ship an adequate supply of oil through the Baku-Novorossiysk
pipeline as stipulated in a 1996 agreement. Vainshtok said SOCAR had shipped 340,000 tones
as of early June, out of the 2.3 million tones contractually required by the end of the
year. Additionally, Vainshtok said the contract with SOCAR calls for additional exports
next year, raising the specter for future problems.

While Azerbaijan is free to shun Russia, Kazakstan has no such luxury. Azerbaijan does not
solely depend upon the Russian pipeline system for its oil exports, unlike Kazakstan, and
depends far less upon Russian industrial imports. The Azerbaijani economy is growing
steadily, with 6.6 percent year on year GDP growth, and the highest rate of export growth
within the CIS. With the increasing involvement of Western companies in the country,
Azerbaijan may be seeking to move toward a more pro-Western trade stance.

Kazakstan, however, is locked into an economy dependent upon Russia. It relies heavily on
Russian gas and electricity imports, as well as Russian industrial goods. For the near
future, Kazakstan will be tied to Russia, as Russian pipelines form the only means of
import and export of gas and oil. In the current situation, Kazakstan will be forced into
accepting Russian demands or face the potential for domestic instability.

The calculated political decision made by SOCAR to reduce exports to Russia is an obvious
one, because it allows the country to avert a potential fuel shortage, while flexing some
political muscle. While the country may be hit financially, the price of instability is
much greater. For Kazakstan, however, the shortage means additional reliance on Russian
imports and increasing debt. The lack of regional alternatives will further push Kazakstan
into the Russian sphere of influence.

CIS Intelligence Center

Trans-Caucasus Hotspot

Kosovo Hotspot

CIS Economy Center

CIS Global Intelligence Update
Archives

Country Information

http://www.stratfor.com/CIS/default.htm

Is American Indifference Making the G-8 Obsolete?
0011 GMT, 000711

Summary

The foreign ministers of the G-8 nations are to meet in Miyazaki,
Japan, on July 12 to prepare the summit of G-8 leaders, one week
later. U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright will not attend,
so that she can instead take part in the Middle East peace summit
at Camp David. Albright?s absence will limit the Clinton
administration?s influence over the full summit, leaving Japan and
Russia free to promote their own agendas. But neither is strong
enough to lead. The G-8 is becoming what its critics contend:
obsolete.

Analysis

On July 5, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright announced
that she would not attend the G-8 foreign ministers? meeting. Her
decision has been met with disappointment and even pique,
particularly in Japan. Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister Yoshiji
Nogami cautioned that it would be ?difficult for U.S. opinions to
be heard? without Albright in attendance, reported Japan?s Kyodo
News Service.

Nogami added, ?If the U.S. thinks the presence of
someone who is not a minister ? is enough to
secure its interests, that is its decision.? Local
officials in Miyazaki were similarly upset; they
were to name a new, $47 million civic hall after
Albright, in honor of her visit. The U.S. State
Department has promised that Albright will visit
the city at some other time.

However, while Washington is soothing the feelings
of the Japanese, it has shown less concern for the
summit itself. This marks the first time that Washington has failed
to send a full delegation to the G-8 ministerial meeting; instead,
Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott will represent the United
States. To a degree, the administration?s decision reflects a
declining interest in the organization that previous
administrations have insisted upon leading - and multilateral
organizations in general.

The G-7, as it was originally known, represented the seven largest
industrialized democracies and was dominated by the United States.
The inclusion of Russia and the growing regional focus of the
individual members have mitigated U.S. interest in the
organization. This fits a growing pattern, in which the United
States is less inclined to take part in multinational organizations
that it does not dominate. Examples of American indifference have
been seen at recent meetings of the Asia Pacific Economic
Cooperation (APEC) meetings and the fact that the United States led
NATO into action in Kosovo last year, without a U.N. mandate.

With U.S. interest in multinational bodies waning, the future of
the organization is in question. Already, there are few pressing
issues on the table at the G-8 summit. Japan has insisted that the
summit focus on preventing and resolving conflict. For Tokyo, the
summit presents an opportunity to demonstrate leadership of the
world?s industrialized nations. Japan also seeks to represent
larger Asian interests, going so far as to unsuccessfully invite
Chinese participation in an observer status.

Conflicts and prospects for peace in East Timor, the Middle East,
the Korean peninsula and Cyprus are likely to be discussed. But
conspicuously absent will be any debate on relations between China
and Taiwan or Russia?s involvement in Chechnya. The Japanese
government is clearly seeking to mollify Moscow.

In part, the Mori government also wants to keep the summit from
becoming a diplomatic battleground between the Russians and the
Americans, over plans for a National Missile Defense (NMD). The
Russian agenda includes asking for forgiveness of old loans as well
as missile defense. Discussion of both the proposed NMD and
modifications to the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) treaty will
likely dominate bilateral sideline meetings.

With the United States represented at a lower level during the
foreign ministers? meeting, Japan and Russia have a greater
opportunity to push their own agendas. However, Japan?s domestic
political and economic problems limit its ability to truly take the
reins and Russia has yet to be fully integrated into the
organization. With waning U.S. interest, the G-8 is becoming
exactly what its critics have said: obsolete.

http://www.stratfor.com/asia/commentary/0007110011.htm

Forecast for the Third Quarter of 2000: The Major Players
Focus on the Great Game
5 July 2000

Summary

In the coming months, world events will be shaped by an unfolding
game of alliances. After consolidating power at home, the new
government in Moscow will look abroad, seeking investment from the
West and competing to a certain degree with China. After a long
dormant period, American interest in the world will be renewed with
the pressures of a presidential campaign; one of those pressures
will be found in the price oil. And Washington is likely to bring
its own pressure to bear on friendly governments in Latin America
and the Persian Gulf to control those prices before the November
elections.

http://www.stratfor.com/SERVICES/GIU/3q2000.asp

"I see the fight for "board's most suffered" title is on.."

What does that mean??? More Mimbari???

good morning, ms. A:

no, i wasnt the one who said that about 'strong
women...' etc.

dunno what mimbari* is or how it might relate to
this.
[*sounds like the title of some bad black and
white 'jungle safari' movie from the '50s....]
===========
PS>> and thank you for your understanding note,
sir. i will respond...off-group. _not_ here.

kim:

_why_ would you presume to know where st.tony was
coming from?
the .....who canonized john salvi, killer of
RECEPTIONISTS? etc etc etc

and _why_ would you seek to tear the whole place
down?
on _whose_ behalf?
_his_?
_yours_?

gotta go to work now.
lucky me.
goodies waiting for me upon my return,
no doubt.
-_-

Faulkner how can I be on welfare if all us Russians launder money you idiot.KIm your question to me doesn't deserve an answer however you an everyone here knows that the old Russian doesn't deserve to be in jail.He killed a Latvian Nazi during the war.Soldiers do not get persecuted for killing soldiers in battle.It is just Latvia way of discriminating against Russians.You know the new Russian policy of protecting it's citizens abroad,sooner or later the damn Latvians will get their answer.Yhe president in Latvia is a damn racist.

Belarus Comes to Grips With Burying German War Dead

GLUBOKOYE, Belarus, Jul 14, 2000 -- (Reuters) Hundreds of blue plastic bags, stacked in the storeroom of a sports school, hold the remains of German soldiers who will finally rest in peace in the Belarussian land they once invaded.

More than half a century after World War Two, a German burial ground hidden under a sports stadium in this town some 250 km (155 miles) west of the capital Minsk, will finally move to a specially allotted area of a local village cemetery.

But the issue of reburying the invaders remains a controversial topic in this country of 10 million people, the scene of the some of the bitterest fighting in the war.

Belarus is still the only country in the world which has not signed an agreement with Germany on military reburials and Glubokoye is the exception rather than the rule.

In Soviet days, the communist authorities showed scant respect for the German dead, often building apartment blocks, a kindergarten, or sports arenas on sites of German graves.

"This is the first time Belarussian officials have asked us what to do with these remains and we are arranging the burial together," Gunnar Anschutz, a representative of the German People's Union for the Care of War Graves, told Reuters.

Officials at the Belarus Defense Ministry say they receive regular appeals from Germany's Foreign Ministry asking it to sign an agreement on arranging a single German military cemetery in Belarus as has been the case in Eastern and Western Europe.

"My grandfather disappeared on the eastern (Russian) front. My grandma never learned where the remains of her husband had been buried," Anschutz said.

"But in Germany, there are still many old women for whom it is important to find the graves of their husbands. This is why we are in a hurry."

BELARUSSIANS BITTER, CEMETERY DESECRATED

Although the war ended more than half a century ago, the idea of arranging orderly military cemeteries for German soldiers still finds very few enthusiasts in Belarus.

The country, renowned for its massive partisan movement during the 1941-44 German occupation, suffered some of the worst Nazi atrocities and lost every fourth resident.

Many of the older generation still cry and shudder with horror when recalling the occupation and are impervious to arguments in favor of reconciliation.

"I would rather hang myself if we start erecting memorials to those butchers," said one old former partisan.

Mikhail Kursky, another World War Two veteran who has dedicated his life to collecting evidence of people burnt alive in the destruction of hundreds of Belarussian villages, said forgetting the past was a matter of time.

"Reconciliation through reburials should take place. This is correct. But wait a while before we (veterans) pass away. We do not have much time left," he said.

The only German military cemetery which officially exists in Belarus is in the Minsk suburb of Tarasov, where soldiers who died in a Soviet concentration camp for military prisoners were buried after the war.

But the cemetery, arranged under the aegis of the United Nations during Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev's democracy and openness drive in the 1980s, is often desecrated by locals who view the burials as a betrayal of the memory of their countrymen.

SKELETONS STILL BEING DUG UP

Servicemen from a special Belarussian search battalion which looks for wartime mass burial sites have already found the remains of more than 500 German soldiers in the Glubokoye district.

Many of the skeletons, found in crumbling coffins, still have dog tags, showing names and other personal data.

"Our (Soviet) soldiers were not buried in graves - they would be usually dumped into a shell crater and hastily covered with soil," said Sergei Medvedev, an ensign officer who has spent five years searching for World War Two burials.

He shook his head in disbelief as he looked through a color catalogue with pictures of clean and orderly German military cemeteries in other countries, bedecked with flowers.

War historians say Germany lost some two million servicemen in the former Soviet Union, including up to one million in the Belarussian forests, swamps and plains.

Under communism, the issue of German burial sites was taboo in Belarus, which has not managed to bury even all the Soviet soldiers, despite propaganda praising their bravery.

Finding the remains of Germans, search battalions would usually leave them as they were, just covering them with soil.

Hundreds of plastic bags and wooden boxes with remains of the others who had personal medallions still gather dust at military registration offices across the country, also forgotten.

However, some of the young Belarussian soldiers who sort out the remains of Germans and put them in the blue plastic bags, appeared to feel no hostility.

"They were ordinary soldiers, just like us. They were called up, had their heads shaved, and no one asked whether they wanted this or not," said soldier Andrei Kantor, 19, putting a German soldier's skull into a bag the color of a peaceful summer sky.

Kim you were talking about equal justice,maybe it is time to bring Nazi war criminals who live in US to trial.America sheltered thousands of them who work for US govt.The old Russiaaan was a partisan not a war criminal.Just wondering why you are so rabid against Russians

Putin Says Some Russian Arms Prototypes Years Ahead of Foreign Competition

MOSCOW, Jul 12, 2000 -- (BBC Monitoring) Many prototypes of armaments on display at the UralsExpoArms 2000 exhibition are years ahead of the foreign competition, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a message welcoming those participating in the arms show in the Urals.

The show included demonstration flights by the Mi-24 helicopter and the MiG-29 fighter equipped with high-precision weapons. T-80 and T-90S tanks and Tyulpan and Giatsint self-propelled mortars were also displayed.

A tank support combat vehicle [the Russian abbreviation is BMPT, standing for boyevaya mashina podderzhki tankov] is on display for the first time. It is intended for protection against fire coming from grenade launchers. The vehicle is equipped with three grenade launchers, a 30-millimetre cannon, antitank guided missiles and a hull machine gun. All these weapons comprise a single attack system. Targets are detected with the help of thermal imaging and optical sighting devices. Locking onto a target can be done manually or automatically.

According to Russian Defense Ministry experts, the tank support combat vehicle will have no competition within the next decade.

Galls and goys!
I see you can,t get out with discussion opened by streetsmurt fellow Antonio and victorious coalition not able to heal wounds by comforting themself with cut and pasting. Did you realy boot him out for what he said? So it more safe to flood board with verbal sexual harasment then..
There is a question to him, or JakeB THX and VARY Mary can help.
What the difference in valuation of humans hibrid with ~10% of niggers blood? White would say-he's a black, the other side-he's a white. What,s the difference in reference of a man with same proportion of jewish blood????? there is no difference.
After involuntary mixing trough the centuries Jew in Ephiopia look pretty blacky, in Poland very mucho slavik. Sorry about sephardics Jake, they keep purity, and youself is true wornout viking. No more origin but termin spread like a virus and sound noble as well as "Aryan", no such a tribe any more, but bunch of nations feel like that and speak aryan in 100 dialects. It,s just a lable or diahnosis today. People stick it on persons being a subject of woshiping before, like Lenin, Hitler, Eltsin, Talaat-pasha and Clinton >phhh., they can,t insult them by naming -spaniard, deich, armenian, turk and so. To be a jew is a doubleside sword significant in a good and bad senses.
Year, about chechnia. Turk is western civilization start to open your eyes on muslims savageness, those chopped fingers and kissing the ashes from foot looks disguasting eh, the only reason you can't admit it after chechehs, the russian look same cruel and uncivilised in your minds.
Karlmarx, I noticed any slite hints of queen bring you to a rash?!

The world is turning up side dawn in Belarus, near the Khatyns historical monument and massive graves of burned alive by Nazi victims will be erected clean and orderly loking cemetery of their cutthrouts

Well, Kim, I see all these posts - "I was on a receiving end of the most disgusting posts", "I stood up for others and got [you know what]", "No one protected me from vicious attacks", etc. - just keep coming.

You want to martyr for your way of defining the free speech and, too bad, no government is willing to oblige with a gag order. Mr. Sligar, ban us all!!! Good God, don't set yourself on fire and jump from the window - mantle is yours.

P.S. I know Help was tossed once and, it looks, Barufi-Luttiano a couple of times, also Jake... So what.